[SIZE="3"]Muchas gracias for that.[/SIZE]

Anytime.

OMG! What an episode!

OK, I surrender. Kate's Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6. They have all been revealed....Aaron, Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Sun.

I must have missed the bit where they mentioned this. . . . are we talking about the episode Meet Kevin Johnson?

I DON'T TRUST ANYTHING THAT BEN SAYS. NOTHING. NOTHING!

Ok, so that said, who do we believe? Ben, when he says that the staged plane wreck and dead bodies at the bottom of the ocean was all Widmore's idea. Or Widmore, who says Ben did it.

I'd like to go with Widmore because I don't believe a thing out of Ben's mouth. But somehow, that seems too easy........

You can think about LOST inside out and back to front and having nothing to show for it: the never ending feints, red herrings and double-bluffs will send you on a downward spiral into an abyss of suspicion and insanity if you ponder them too long.

Ben is blatantly a baddie. Everything he does is blatantly either deceptive or calculated evil. Whereas Widmore seems like a bit of a dude - rich, powerful, handsome, and although being strict and terse with Desmond he seems remarkably generous too - allowing Desmond a place in his race to give Des a chance to prove himself, and then when they met in the episode where Des was going to die if he didnt find his constant, he spoke sympathetically with Des and even gave Des Penny's address so they could speak. It would have been just as easy for Widmore to bawl Des out and tell him to do one.

But. . . . when something is so clear cut in this programme you have to be suspicious of it. As Ben repeatedly states, "We're the good guys." It would be just like the writers of Lost to make Ben seem one way, when really the truth of the matter has been hiding in plain sight all along.

Also, they still havent explained the full stakes of the game conderning the Island yet. Although it seems pretty harsh to kill Carl and Danielle, if the Island is linked to the Venzetti(?) Equation and the end of the world is at stake, then a couple of deaths could be justifiable. . . . Ben could be an antihero for having the courage to do so much killing.

This last episode was good, but by far from one of my favorites. I think they spent way too much time on Michael's ordeal and how he came to be on the boat...which left very little time for the ending...which makes things all the worse since we have to wait like what...a month...till the next episode to see who was behind Carl and Danielle's shootings...the freighties or Ben and/or his people.

However, I will admit that I never really cared for Michael's character and I really don't give a damn what happened to him or what will happen to him...so I may be a little biased in my dislike of this episode.

I'm guessing that like Bones stated, Ben will turn out to really be one of "the good guys" or some sort of antihero that was forced to do what he did IOT save humanity...we shall see. And even though he has become alot more vile in Season 4 Ben is still my favorite character and I continue to root for him.

I even had a dream where I was a hitman for Ben and it was the coolest dream I've had in some time...yeah I know I'm weird...but we've already established that a long time ago...or was it that I'm an asshole...or both...damn I just can't remember.

I must have missed the bit where they mentioned this. . . . are we talking about the episode Meet Kevin Johnson?

Yes, you might not have seen it in the UK because it was not part of the episode. It was a promotional bit at the end, just before the coming attractions. The announcer says, "and now that the Oceanic 6 have been confirmed..." over a montage of shots of Kate, Sayid, Sun, Jack, Hurley, and Aaron. Then they continue with what's coming in the next episodes.

In the latest podcast, the writers confirmed the Oceanic 6 as being the list above.

You can think about LOST inside out and back to front and having nothing to show for it: the never ending feints, red herrings and double-bluffs will send you on a downward spiral into an abyss of suspicion and insanity if you ponder them too long.

Too true, too true.

...Widmore seems like a bit of a dude - rich, powerful, handsome, and although being strict and terse with Desmond he seems remarkably generous too - allowing Desmond a place in his race to give Des a chance to prove himself, and then when they met in the episode where Des was going to die if he didnt find his constant, he spoke sympathetically with Des and even gave Des Penny's address so they could speak. It would have been just as easy for Widmore to bawl Des out and tell him to do one.

I have the strong suspicion that everything Widmore has done or not done concerning Desmond was to maneuver Desmond on to the Island, which somehow helps Widmore get to the Island.

Widmore was damn nasty to Desmond when Des came to his office to ask for Penny's hand in marriage. When did Widmore offer Des a place in the race? I don't remember such a scene. We know that Des got his boat from Libby, but we don't know exactly how he entered the race.

When Des went to the auction house and met up with Widmore in the bathroom, Widmore, after using a paper towel to touch the metal faucet so that his bare hand does not meet the metal, deliberately leaves the watering running, which is odd when you think about it. It is very rare that an odd action on LOST is in a scene for no reason. Desmond touches the metal faucet with running water and BLAMO, he's back in the future. I don't know the connection for sure, but I have the feeling that somehow Widmore had a clue that something like that would be happening to Desmond. And I think Widmore was so willing to give Penny's number to Desmond because somehow, don't know how, somehow Widmore knew that Desmond making that link with Penny would cement Widmore's ability to get to the Island.

These are all very loose links at this point in time, but I bet they will be shown to be more concrete in episodes to come.

But. . . . when something is so clear cut in this programme you have to be suspicious of it. As Ben repeatedly states, "We're the good guys." It would be just like the writers of Lost to make Ben seem one way, when really the truth of the matter has been hiding in plain sight all along.

Because we all have a love/hate relationship with Ben, and he's become so popular as a villain, I think he will come out smelling like a rose in the long run.

Yes, you might not have seen it in the UK because it was not part of the episode. It was a promotional bit at the end, just before the coming attractions. The announcer says, "and now that the Oceanic 6 have been confirmed..." over a montage of shots of Kate, Sayid, Sun, Jack, Hurley, and Aaron. Then they continue with what's coming in the next episodes.

In the latest podcast, the writers confirmed the Oceanic 6 as being the list above.

I know this is going ot sound pretty horrid, but did anyone else think Aaron (in the episode with Kate) was kind of...ugly??

And speaking of Aaron I wonder what will happen in the future timeline since he is now being raised by someone else...something Claire's psyhic was adamantly against?

[SIZE="3"]I love listening to the podcasts on abc.com of the authors discussing LOST.

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?p...ast#t=3421

In the 3/21/08 podcast, Lindelof and Cuse confirm:

1. the list Marc posted earlier as the Oceanic 6 is correct.
2. Aaron may be in danger being raised by Kate (they referenced her checkered background and uneasy relationships with men)
3. we will learn, though not in a flashback, about the 4-toed statue and the Black Rock, but they didn't say when.
4. they coined a wonderful phrase, "Lockejaw," meaning Locke has jammed a grenade between your jaws.

And other stuff which I won't mention here since it could be considered spoilers of a sort, though I don't think what I learned from Cuse and Lindelof is anything that I hadn't guessed at previously, and it's all very vague anyway.

The podcasts are enjoyable, though you get to see the nerdy side of the writers.[/SIZE]

...And speaking of Aaron I wonder what will happen in the future timeline since he is now being raised by someone else...something Claire's psyhic was adamantly against?

Sig, see my previous post, which I copied and pasted above. The writers mention that.

Too true, too true.


I have the strong suspicion that everything Widmore has done or not done concerning Desmond was to maneuver Desmond on to the Island, which somehow helps Widmore get to the Island.

Widmore was damn nasty to Desmond when Des came to his office to ask for Penny's hand in marriage. When did Widmore offer Des a place in the race? I don't remember such a scene. We know that Des got his boat from Libby, but we don't know exactly how he entered the race.

When Des went to the auction house and met up with Widmore in the bathroom, Widmore, after using a paper towel to touch the metal faucet so that his bare hand does not meet the metal, deliberately leaves the watering running, which is odd when you think about it. It is very rare that an odd action on LOST is in a scene for no reason. Desmond touches the metal faucet with running water and BLAMO, he's back in the future. I don't know the connection for sure, but I have the feeling that somehow Widmore had a clue that something like that would be happening to Desmond. And I think Widmore was so willing to give Penny's number to Desmond because somehow, don't know how, somehow Widmore knew that Desmond making that link with Penny would cement Widmore's ability to get to the Island.

These are all very loose links at this point in time, but I bet they will be shown to be more concrete in episodes to come.


Because we all have a love/hate relationship with Ben, and he's become so popular as a villain, I think he will come out smelling like a rose in the long run.

I didnt say that Widmore offered a place in the race to Desmond.

As I said, he is strict and terse - constantly. But it also centres around his perception of Dezzie-bum-bum being a coward. He could say NO to Dezzer entering his race altogether with a swish of a fountain pen, yet he doesnt. He raises the stakes, challenging Dezzer to earn the win, rather than be given it; "sure you can participate in my race, but first go find a boat." "sure you can have my daughter's hand in marriage, but first go get me a tin of stripey paint." It would all fit in with a scheme to make him perfrom 12 Herculean Tasks to prove he's worthy of his square-jawed drippy daughter.

I am reserving judgement over the touching metal business. Widmore could have been funding Dharma enough that he could have been to the Island in the past, but why would he be suffering from the same condition as Dez? Faraday is worried it may happen to him, but that's becasue of the device he was working with. Simply being to the Island isnt enough to cause Dez's condition, becasue many Losties have handled metal weapons and not warped through time and space. Only becasue Dez was sat on top of the thingy when the fail-safe fired can he do these things. Of course, Widmore might have been present when the first Incident occured....... but if that turns out to be the case, I'll be through with Lost.

Also, this Constant thing. Maybe I just don't get it, but it seemed to me just an excuse to have a soppy touchy-feely moment for a change. Dez needs a constant everytime he flashbacks (or, as in the case with Charlie's many deaths) flashforwards. Surely gravity is going to be constant? The fact that he breathes air will be constant wheerever he flashes? That his eyes contain both rods and cones, and that the rods detect fluctuations in light and dark, and the cones specialise in indentifying red, green or blue will be constant. The fact that France exists etc etc etc will all be constant no matter when he flashes. Was it entirely neccessary to have him sniveling and bawling and getting all wet with Penny?? Is it becasue of this meeting that she decieded to track him down? Did this scene happen before they met at the stadium where he was training? She seemed to like him well enough then.

I didnt say that Widmore offered a place in the race to Desmond.

OK, I misread.

I am reserving judgement over the touching metal business. Widmore could have been funding Dharma enough that he could have been to the Island in the past, but why would he be suffering from the same condition as Dez?

I didn't mean to imply that Widmore and Desmond are suffering the same illness (the writers have hinted that Desmond's trippiness may be a possible illness contracted by some folks on the Island, from what we do not know). I meant that I think Widmore has some idea, and I don't know how, that Desmond was tripping back and forth in time and Widmore was just pushing the envelope. I attribute ulterior motives to virtually every character on LOST, and certainly to Widmore. That bathroom scene was too peculiar to me to read it as simply a place where Desmond and Widmore met and spoke. Something else was going on there, unbeknownst to Desmond.

Now, when all is said and done, and we come to the end of the show, all my discussion here will be pointless and meaningless because everything means something else on this show.

Faraday is worried it may happen to him, but that's becasue of the device he was working with. Simply being to the Island isnt enough to cause Dez's condition, becasue many Losties have handled metal weapons and not warped through time and space. Only becasue Dez was sat on top of the thingy when the fail-safe fired can he do these things. Of course, Widmore might have been present when the first Incident occured....... but if that turns out to be the case, I'll be through with Lost.

Faraday and Desmond share over-exposure to electromagnetic forces. That, with whatever is at play on the Island (it could be the illness or sickness at which the writers hinted) make them fair game for tripping through time.

But each seems to have found his Constant, so, for the moment (quite literally) they are stuck in time as they should be.