I have not read the entire article yet, as I am at work (have to at least keep up appearances occasionally). I do agree with a lot of that. The main failing is that going into this war, the US had no clear plan of attack or even knowledge of exactly what they were fighting and how to fight it. As Ken said earlier somewhere, our military is based on state v. state. These terrorists are guerrilla (sp?) or possibly even different than that. You have to adapt you fighting style and the form of your military. I saw a good article on this once (maybe it was posted here and someone remembers). The US does not have and never has had the correct type of military to fight that kind of war. Look at Viet Nam.

As far as the question of whether we are safer now than we were before. My honest answer is I don't feel any more or less safe. I think I am more aware, which may make me safer. The same can be said for most US citizens, I would think and hope. But no, I don't think any of the "extra security" makes me feel any safer.

Hey now.....don't lump all conservatives into one group.

I don't lump all the rest of you whackos in one group.....Thats a joke!! Please take it as such.

That's precisely why I asked -- in an earlier post -- for his definition of conservative. I have known some people who call themselves conservatives, who wanted to "conserve" the power of the State. I have also known others who want to conserve the principles this country was founded upon -- minimal government.

Labels are funny things. Two hundred years ago, if you supported the rights of individuals to live their private and economic lives as they choose, you were a Liberal. When the Socialists stole the name Liberal for themselves, the "Classical Liberals" came to be called Conservatives. Today it seems that totalitarians are taking for themselves the name Conservative. This has led to the situation where the Classical Liberals/Classical Conservatives have had to find another name to call themselves. So far, that name is Libertarian, but I see that Statists are now trying to steal that name too. :mad:

Ken V.

I saw this Monday night and have to say wow. Michael Moore does it again with an interesting story, interesting connections and some very nice humor mixed in. It was yet another sold out show (the four theaters in the Chicago area have all been sold out for each screening) and received round of applause at the end.

There are a lot of heart-breaking moments in it but the one for me is when a woman whose son had been killed in Iraq goes to D.C. to visit the White House and some clueless woman comes up and starts screaming in her face that this is all staged. The horror on the mothers face is traumatic.

For the people who claim that Michael Moore is a manipulative person, who skews the facts to further his own agenda and make a specific point, I raise the question: what have Bush and Cheney been doing for the last four years? And the only reason I use them as an example is because this movie is about them.

I urge everyone to see it. You may not agree with his views but you may start to understand why so many people are angry with the U.S. government.

I saw it too. A more pathetic piece of propagnada, well, I'm hard pressed to think of one. TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, maybe. But at least that had real artistic virtue, no matter what you thought of its subject. This piece of garbage is beyond redemption. Of course, those who hate America--and I'm truly sorry to observe there are some on this board--lapped it up with their frog legs and snails.

I saw it too. A more pathetic piece of propagnada, well, I'm hard pressed to think of one. TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, maybe. But at least that had real artistic virtue, no matter what you thought of its subject. This piece of garbage is beyond redemption. Of course, those who hate America--and I'm truly sorry to observe there are some on this board--lapped it up with their frog legs and snails.

I'm guessing you clump me in that category of "those who hate America," and I resent it and I resent you for it! You couldn't be further from the truth. What does one have to do to love his country? Blindly follow? Support something that he thinks is wrong? Keep his mouth shut while people's rights are being subjugated? What? Since you are all knowing on this subject, tell me.

Don't EVER presume to tell me what I think or feel about ANYTHING.

I'm guessing you clump me in that category of "those who hate America," and I resent it and I resent you for it! You couldn't be further from the truth. What does one have to do to love his country? Blindly follow? Support something that he thinks is wrong? Keep his mouth shut while people's rights are being subjugated? What? Since you are all knowing on this subject, tell me.

Don't EVER presume to tell me what I think or feel about ANYTHING.

I wasn't referring to you, Jimbo. Why did you think I was? I was making a general observation about some souls on the board whom I respect, even when I think they're wrong. If I weren't such a sweet-natured creature, I just might resent =you= for trying to put words in my mouth.

I wasn't referring to you, Jimbo. Why did you think I was? I was making a general observation about some souls on the board whom I respect, even when I think they're wrong. If I weren't such a sweet-natured creature, I just might resent =you= for trying to put words in my mouth.

I think it was pretty clear from past disagreements why I thought you were referring to me. If you legitimately were not, I apologize, but why the vagueries about whom you are referring? Why not just say what you mean?

I don't think I've seen Biggles on this topic yet.

Thanks for the welcome.

Rob

Just kidding, Sublime--Biggles and Ken are cool hombres.

I have not read the entire article yet, as I am at work (have to at least keep up appearances occasionally). I do agree with a lot of that. The main failing is that going into this war, the US had no clear plan of attack or even knowledge of exactly what they were fighting and how to fight it. As Ken said earlier somewhere, our military is based on state v. state. These terrorists are guerrilla (sp?) or possibly even different than that. You have to adapt you fighting style and the form of your military. I saw a good article on this once (maybe it was posted here and someone remembers). The US does not have and never has had the correct type of military to fight that kind of war. Look at Viet Nam.

As far as the question of whether we are safer now than we were before. My honest answer is I don't feel any more or less safe. I think I am more aware, which may make me safer. The same can be said for most US citizens, I would think and hope. But no, I don't think any of the "extra security" makes me feel any safer.

I do believe a certain North African dictator has seen the light.

I think it was pretty clear from past disagreements why I thought you were referring to me. If you legitimately were not, I apologize, but why the vagueries about whom you are referring? Why not just say what you mean?

Apology accepted. But I thought we'd agreed privately not to get too het-up about opinions expressed on the board. Am I wrong? I hope not--I value your ideas. (Even when they are half-assed )

Apology accepted. But I thought we'd agreed privately not to get too het-up about opinions expressed on the board. Am I wrong? I hope not--I value your ideas. (Even when they are half-assed )

I have no problem debating other peoples' ideas and viewpoints either (even whey they are half-assed, as you say). You can tell me what you think about anything. But I do have a problem when people state their opinions of what I think or feel as fact. Very little irks me quite as much as that. So, needless to say, you hit a touchy subject.

You accused people of hating America, but that is only your opinion. I would be willing to bet that they would argue with you about that. Though they can't because they don't know who they are. Perhaps Marc or Scott or even Ken? Or is it just anyone who liked or agreed with the movie?

And I noticed also that Biggles was conspicuously absent from this whole debate. WUSS!!!