Oh wow! I had forgotten about that! No way that is a coincidence!

LOL, there are no coincidences on this show.

Great episode, very powerful. It's unfolding more or less like I thought it would. Prediction, Ben's group gets offed next week setting the stage for the big purge that will be the final episode. What happened to those guys anyways? They left a couple of episodes back to blow up the plane and it looks like they never got there. what a great season it's been. I think it's the best since season 2.

Ben is too important a character simply to be blown away. At the very least, he has to have a showdown with Widmore. I think there will be some superlative morally redeeming actions on Ben's part before he winds up as a Whisperer on the Island.

And what is Widmore's story, anyway? I think he's as eager to kill everyone on the Island as MIB.

If the C-4 explosive really was in the plane wired to blow when all the Oceanic 815 group got together on the plane, as MIB said, then Widmore wants what MIB wants... to get rid of all the Candidates. It seem as though MIB took something out of the overhead compartment on the plane, but the item was in shadow, so you couldn't see it well. But given what happened, I imagine it actually was the C-4 explosive that eventually blew up the sub.

I just never trust what MIB says.

Oh, and I DO NOT want Miles to die. I adore Miles.

I am really hoping for a Widmore and Ben scene. I'm sure it is inevitable, but hope along with it will come more explanation of widmore and Hawking. I thought that was one of the biggest mysteries that has really not seem much if at all explanation.

I also thought it was very odd that those four who were singled out were now the ones who were alive.

I...hope along with it will come more explanation of widmore and Hawking. I thought that was one of the biggest mysteries that has really not seem much if at all explanation.

Widmore and Hawking:
1. We don't know how they came to be on the Island.
2. They met on the Island as young people.
3. They seemed to have a testy yet passionate relationship.
4. Widmore got Hawking pregnant with Daniel.
5. We don't know if they were married or what.
6. Daniel was conceived on the Island but we don't know if Daniel was born on the Island.
7. We don't know when or why Hawking left the Island, possibly to give birth to Daniel. (Note: the doctor who was trying to help Horace Goodspeed's wife give birth to Ethan (before Juliet stepped in back in 70's Dhamaville) said that women left the Island to have babies in a hospital.)
8. Hawking raised Daniel off-Island.
9. Widmore got kicked off the Island after it was discovered that he had a relationship with an as yet unknown off-Island woman with whom he fathered Penny.
10. No reference has ever been made as to who Penny's mother is.

You're right. That's a lot of unknowns. I'd like to know more about Widmore and Hawking, too.

Widmore and Hawking:
1. We don't know how they came to be on the Island.
2. They met on the Island as young people.
3. They seemed to have a testy yet passionate relationship.
4. Widmore got Hawking pregnant with Daniel.
5. We don't know if they were married or what.
6. Daniel was conceived on the Island but we don't know if Daniel was born on the Island.
7. We don't know when or why Hawking left the Island, possibly to give birth to Daniel. (Note: the doctor who was trying to help Horace Goodspeed's wife give birth to Ethan (before Juliet stepped in back in 70's Dhamaville) said that women left the Island to have babies in a hospital.)
8. Hawking raised Daniel off-Island.
9. Widmore got kicked off the Island after it was discovered that he had a relationship with an as yet unknown off-Island woman with whom he fathered Penny.
10. No reference has ever been made as to who Penny's mother is.

You're right. That's a lot of unknowns. I'd like to know more about Widmore and Hawking, too.

Not to mention how do both of them seem to know so much, when it seems both never got higher then Ben in regard to how they were seen on the island. And what about Ben and Widmores game where Widmore broke the rules of? Was it just a part of Jacob and Smokeys game?

Not to mention how do both of them seem to know so much, when it seems both never got higher then Ben in regard to how they were seen on the island.

Good point. But Ben seems to know a lot, too. Eloise seems to be some sort of quasi-scientist in her spare time. How'd she get to do that? Widmore seems to have excellent business acumen. Did he have help, or did he earn all his money on his own?

And what about Ben and Widmores game where Widmore broke the rules of? Was it just a part of Jacob and Smokeys game?

I think we may find out that Jacob and MIB are playing one huge game, with Earth as the payoff. There does seem to be rules, but we aren't sure what they are yet, except they seem to have something to do with whom you can and cannot kill.

I've said this before, with my guess reinforced after recent repeat viewing of Season 5 episodes. I think the "donkey wheel" that Ben and Locke moved to shift the Island in time is a mechanism like a ship's wheel on an earthly boat. Which means The Island is some sort of vehicle and the donkey wheel is far from earthly.

I also thought it was very odd that those four who were singled out were now the ones who were alive.

Now take it one step further. The three that we know for sure died on the sub (I think there's a very slim chance Lapidus may have survived) - Sun, Jin, Sayid - are the same three who got on Desmond's boat to rescue Kate, Sawyer, Jack and Hurley from Michael's betrayal.

Widmore and Hawking:
1. We don't know how they came to be on the Island.
2. They met on the Island as young people.
3. They seemed to have a testy yet passionate relationship.
4. Widmore got Hawking pregnant with Daniel.
5. We don't know if they were married or what.
6. Daniel was conceived on the Island but we don't know if Daniel was born on the Island.
7. We don't know when or why Hawking left the Island, possibly to give birth to Daniel. (Note: the doctor who was trying to help Horace Goodspeed's wife give birth to Ethan (before Juliet stepped in back in 70's Dhamaville) said that women left the Island to have babies in a hospital.)
8. Hawking raised Daniel off-Island.
9. Widmore got kicked off the Island after it was discovered that he had a relationship with an as yet unknown off-Island woman with whom he fathered Penny.
10. No reference has ever been made as to who Penny's mother is.

You're right. That's a lot of unknowns. I'd like to know more about Widmore and Hawking, too.

Whoa, that is a lot. I bet we don't get answers to most of that. At the very least, though, we need to find out how Eloise knows so much in both the sideways time and real time. What is her true role in all of this? I can live without knowing the rest if I at least know that.

At the very least, though, we need to find out how Eloise knows so much in both the sideways time and real time. What is her true role in all of this?

Agreed. Just why does she know so much? She persuades, cajoles and influences with just enough information to get the result she wants. She obviously knows more than she ever tells.

Also, that lab of hers with the pendulum. I want to know more about that place as well.

Now take it one step further. The three that we know for sure died on the sub (I think there's a very slim chance Lapidus may have survived) - Sun, Jin, Sayid - are the same three who got on Desmond's boat to rescue Kate, Sawyer, Jack and Hurley from Michael's betrayal.




Whoa, that is a lot. I bet we don't get answers to most of that. At the very least, though, we need to find out how Eloise knows so much in both the sideways time and real time. What is her true role in all of this? I can live without knowing the rest if I at least know that.

That is a lot, and I'm not too worried about finding out all the answers. I'd actually be happy with just finding out how they know so much, and maybe by knowing that it would clear up some other things. I was wondering a little bit if there was a third party involved that wanted Eloise and Widmore to come to the aid of the island. Jacob, Mib, and someone else? The two kid's we have seen following MIB sometimes?

That is a lot, and I'm not too worried about finding out all the answers.

I simply listed the facts that I know thus far about Widmore and Hawking. What will be revealed, will be revealed. You know, a variation on, if it happened, it happened.

... was a third party involved that wanted Eloise and Widmore to come to the aid of the island. Jacob, Mib, and someone else?

I'm nearly through watching the 5th season with Liam. I watch now to see what influence the MIB exerted over the survivors as he took assorted forms throughout the years.

In the scene where Locke breaks his leg going down the well to stop the time shifts, Christian (the MIB as we now know) told Locke that Locke had to leave the Island and find Eloise Hawking, who would help him get the Oceanic 6 back to the Island. Christian also agreed with Locke that Locke would have to die.

That was the second time that someone on the Island mentioned the need to find Eloise Hawking to help save the folks left on the Island. Daniel Faraday was the first to mention Eloise by name, when he told Desmond at the hatch that Desmond had to find his (Faraday's) mother.

The scene with Christian/MIB at the well takes on a very sinister tone when you realize that MIB is covertly masterminding a dead Locke's return to the Island.

So what is the connection between MIB and Eloise? Did MIB say that to Locke as some sort of all knowing being, sort of like Jacob is some sort of all knowing being? Well, maybe not ALL knowing, as in God, but they surely do seem to know more than anyone else on the planet. They know what's coming, it seems, and that could be because the Island travels in time. Yet, how do they get their information OFF Island?

Why hasn't Eloise made her way back to the Island? Off Island she has been most closely involved with Desmond, then Ben but only after Locke was killed. Eventually, she reveals herself to Jack and Sun. She's not known by everyone.

Oh, and it was so eerie to hear Charlotte just before she died, scream in Korean to Jin "Don't let them bring her back! Don't bring her back! THIS ISLAND IS DEATH!" And, indeed, it was for Sun and Jin.

The two kid's we have seen following MIB sometimes?

I think those two kids are Jacob and MIB as kids. I think Jacob and MIB have grown up together. We will see something about that this Tuesday, I think.

Oh, and it was so eerie to hear Charlotte just before she died, scream in Korean to Jin "Don't let them bring her back! Don't bring her back! THIS ISLAND IS DEATH!" And, indeed, it was for Sun and Jin.


I think those two kids are Jacob and MIB as kids. I think Jacob and MIB have grown up together. We will see something about that this Tuesday, I think.

Somehow I completely forgot about Charlotte saying that. I was thinking the one kid MIB saw was Jacob somehow coming back to life, but then we saw the second kid and I was confused. As so often happens. There are far too few episodes left to give answers . I don't want all the answers I just really feal like as of now we are not getting very many at all.