Hi all,
I've just finished "Crisscross" (I'm in Australia, and our publishing cycle is a wee bit behind North America), and I have to say -- as usual, it was fantastic. So well written, great entertainment, and FPW does a great job of weaving together stories that you can't imagine will interlock. Looking back from having completed it, it's so perfect -- the stories went exactly where they should; but from the start, you couldn't have foreseen it. (Well, I didn't foresee it, anyway !!)

That's all on the positive side. But there's one that is starting to niggle me through the RJ series, and in "Crisscross" it's really started getting distasteful. And that's FPW's attitude -- not RJ's, so much -- towards gay people.

Look, I know that those who aren't gay will either not have noticed a problem or think there isn't one and it's all in what I'm reading into it; some may even get angry and tell me to get over it (which, in my experience, usually masks an attitude equating to Eddie Murphy's "Why do I ridicule gay people ? Because they're faggots, they deserve it !!"); and yes, I know that women and dark-skinned people and a whole lot of other specific groups of humanity have suffered similar finger-pointing and condescension and occlusion over the years, but that only adds to the weight of why this shouldn't (in my self-interested view) be happening in an RJ book.

Let me get it straight -- as it were ! -- what I'm objecting to. Okay, the character of Preston is an irritating cliché -- jeez, are we back to 70s ? He's straight out of "Fortune and Men's Eyes" -- and I can almost accept it as simply a character FPW wanted Jack to have to negotiate, something outside his norm. Although for my money it's very lazy writing and he's relied on those old, old clichés to draw his character and manipulate his reader's response to him, something that FPW doesn't usually do.

And the whole point of Jack taking up the Louis persona is to make Cordova uncomfortable; fair enough as far as the character goes. But that whole section of the book smacks of a sniggering attitude behind the writing, a kind of rugby-club "bums to the walls, boys !" mentality that invites the reader to squirm right along with Cordova when Jack deliberately moves too physically close. We aren't supposed to like Cordova, we want to see him suffer, so we're supposed to identify with his discomfort at having to chat with and sit with and share a car with a poofter. Ye gods, FPW even makes a point of saying during the scene in Cordova's office that their sitting down means that their butts are in the seats -- I half expected him to have Cordova say something along the lines of the old "don't anyone drop the soap!!" Jeez, FP, that's old Benny Hill-era stuff !!

When we get to Luther Brady, it starts getting really unpleasant. Being gay is not only pretty clearly linked to the Otherness, which is friggin' insulting, but to paedophilia. Bloody hell !! The other old, gross flying-in-the-face-of-facts cliché about gays gets crammed into the same book. Pretty hard to swallow.

And towards the end, when we're told Luther Brady was having nightmare visions of all the big black men lining up in the shower block to gang-rape him ... I nearly threw the book across the room.

Let me be clear: I have no problem with ignorant attitudes being exposed in a character for the audience to scoff at them, but here we're being asked to share the characters' point-of-view as if it's reasonable -- hey, anyone would squirm if a faggot put his hand on their shoulder, right ? -- and respond accordingly.

It comes down to the same sort of attitude that was unwittingly displayed over "Brokeback Mountain", where so many people lamented loudly, and in some cases angrily, that they couldn't go and see it because people might think they were gay. (Hey, walk a mile in my shoes !) I never quite got who they were angry it, because it certainly didn't seem to equate to any sense of how difficult it is for gay people in everyday life, and didn't seem to result in any consciousness-raising. But they just didn't get that their distress over the idea that someone might think they were gay really spoke volumes about their own view about what they thought of gay people and what it meant to be gay.

OK, I've overspent my $0.02. Pardon my soapboxing, but these "he's a real man 'cause he's uncomfortable with gay people" implications have been building up over the last few RJ books, and I find it really pretty ... disappointing.

Not a trolling, just a point of view.
regards all,
Bran

I have to disagree with you. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I have absolutely no problem with gay people.

And that's FPW's attitude -- not RJ's, so much -- towards gay people.

I read all your points but still think it's a stretch to infer that FPW has a bad attitude toward gay people because of what is in this book, just my opinion.

Okay, the character of Preston is an irritating cliché -- jeez, are we back to 70s ? He's straight out of "Fortune and Men's Eyes" -- and I can almost accept it as simply a character FPW wanted Jack to have to negotiate, something outside his norm. Although for my money it's very lazy writing and he's relied on those old, old clichés to draw his character and manipulate his reader's response to him, something that FPW doesn't usually do.

I have never lived in NYC, but don't doubt that there are flamboyant gay guys that do fashion for a living. It is a stereotype, but there are probably people that fit it. Besides, he Jack met him in some kind of martial arts class which certainly defies the stereotype.

We aren't supposed to like Cordova, we want to see him suffer, so we're supposed to identify with his discomfort at having to chat with and sit with and share a car with a poofter.

I read that part of the book as Cordova being such an ass for feeling like that about potentially gay people. For me it cemented him as a complete jerk. I didn't even consider that the reader was supposed to empathize with him.

Being gay is not only pretty clearly linked to the Otherness

Have you read Hosts? I won't go into details because I don't want to spoil it if not, but there is a prominent gay character in that book that may change your opinion on this one.

I like that FPW doesn't shy away from having gay characters in his books. It brings another dimension into his great books. Hopefully this issue won't dissuade you from reading other FPW stuff.

I'm not sure how this relates to your post, except that it deals with stereotypes.

I have posted previously, somewhere, that I have always had trouble with the over-the-top Jewishness of Abe. It has turned off my Jewish friends who enjoy the rest of FPW's writing but complain that no one they know talks like that (unless of, course, Abe is making a serious business deal and then he's all-American). I have friends who are Abe's age and who were raised as Abe was, in an ultra-religious Jewish community. They do not speak as he does. I just don't think it's an accurate portrayal of Jews today.

But of course, Abe is putting everyone on when he speaks that way, and he and FPW are doing it, I suspect, just to fly in the face of political correctness.

I think it is occasionally noted in the books that Abe loses his "accent" when he's speaking more seriously. So my guess is that with Abe it's an affectation he (he = Abe) finds fun or useful in certain situations. I don't know if that makes it better or worse from a Jewish POV, but that's been my impression.

I honestly haven't noticed the knocks on gays that the OP alluded to. The only thing I've been uncomfortable with is the portrayal and use of epithets (for lack of a better word) wrt Arabs in the later books. To me, the way it was written, it seems like it was going beyond character thoughts and into author opinion territory. JMO.

I can understand how you might interpret certain scenes or characters as you have. I don't happen to share your interpretation, but I can see how you would get there.

Many of us have certain issues that we are especially sensitive about. I get very upset with books or movies with female characters who are just airheaded set decoration. Don't even get me started on Disney movies - talk about a bunch of bird brains! My point is that I think you're seeing these FPW scenes through a hyper-critical lens and anyone who doesn't have the same level of sensitivity on the issue probably won't interpret them the same way.

As stacyzinda said, Cordova's attitude toward Jack's portrayal of a gay man was just further supporting what a low-life Cordova was. And Jack portrayed his Louis character over-the-top because he figured Cordova's prejudices would make him disregard his usual suspiciousness and see Jack/Louis as no real threat.

Luther Brady was meant to be extremely evil. What is more evil than a pedophile? I don't care if they are straight or gay, a pedophile is about as low as it gets. That was the only impression I took from that part of CrissCross.

Just as I don't believe FPW is a racist because of what one of his characters said in Infernal, I don't believe he's homophobic or anti-gay because of the specific instances you wrote about. I do think that he is not afraid to have characters that are over-the-top sometimes. Because real people are sometimes like that too.

I have posted previously, somewhere, that I have always had trouble with the over-the-top Jewishness of Abe. It has turned off my Jewish friends who enjoy the rest of FPW's writing but complain that no one they know talks like that (unless of, course, Abe is making a serious business deal and then he's all-American). I have friends who are Abe's age and who were raised as Abe was, in an ultra-religious Jewish community. They do not speak as he does. I just don't think it's an accurate portrayal of Jews today.

Mind you, this is quite a long time ago, but I've known Jews in New York who spoke exactly the way Abe does.

I've also known Jews here in Califnordia who spoke the same way.

But of course, Abe is putting everyone on when he speaks that way, and he and FPW are doing it, I suspect, just to fly in the face of political correctness.

Or, Abe's affectation is just one of his personal quirks.

Ken V.

Just as I don't believe FPW is a racist because of what one of his characters said in Infernal, I don't believe he's homophobic or anti-gay because of the specific instances you wrote about. I do think that he is not afraid to have characters that are over-the-top sometimes. Because real people are sometimes like that too.

Again . . . well said Webby.

Most people are more complex than they themselves can imagine. Creating characters who are the same way is not out of the bounds of reality.

I don't have a problem with any of the characters -- or charactures -- in Crisscross.

FPW created characters who were anti-gay. If one were to imagine that FPW was that way himself, then what would his creation of Rasalom make him?

No, these things are just products of his imagination.

Ken V.

FPW created characters who were anti-gay. If one were to imagine that FPW was that way himself, then what would his creation of Rasalom make him?

No, these things are just products of his imagination.

Ken V.

An excellent point! I'm quite sure that FPW does not enjoy, even gain strength from the suffering of children or anyone else for that matter. Nor do I believe he thinks someone like that would be a great guy to hang out with, just because he has imagined one of the most vile characters ever to see print.

Reply to Mac E...
While I understand your view and opinion, I take a different spin of these characters. Cordova's homophobia was the perfect way for Jack to make Cordova squirm and be uncomfortable with the Louis persona. What better way to entice a negative opinion from Cordova than to play upon his "fear" of Gays. Being the scum that he was, ignorance and intolerence were used to Jack's advantage. Jack just made Cordova so uncomfortable, he wasn't thinking straight...no pun intended!...and was manupulated into what Jack wanted. Did FPW *use* the gay persona? Yup and perfectly for the situation IMHO.
Luther Brady was another miscreant. The man was arrogant, narrow minded, and an elitist pedophile. And don't let me forget evil......full of the Otherness. Just how many people did he kill to plant his pillars? Ah, when he was finally brought to justice, he realized the fate of most pedophiles in American jail.....foder for the gangs, that hate child touchers.....he would get what he deserved and probably feared. Used the stereotype again? Yup and perfectly.
Again, this is just my humble opinion. For what it's worth.

Reply to Mac E...
While I understand your view and opinion, I take a different spin of these characters. Cordova's homophobia was the perfect way for Jack to make Cordova squirm and be uncomfortable with the Louis persona. What better way to entice a negative opinion from Cordova than to play upon his "fear" of Gays. Being the scum that he was, ignorance and intolerence were used to Jack's advantage. Jack just made Cordova so uncomfortable, he wasn't thinking straight...no pun intended!...and was manupulated into what Jack wanted. Did FPW *use* the gay persona? Yup and perfectly for the situation IMHO.
Luther Brady was another miscreant. The man was arrogant, narrow minded, and an elitist pedophile. And don't let me forget evil......full of the Otherness. Just how many people did he kill to plant his pillars? Ah, when he was finally brought to justice, he realized the fate of most pedophiles in American jail.....foder for the gangs, that hate child touchers.....he would get what he deserved and probably feared. Used the stereotype again? Yup and perfectly.
Again, this is just my humble opinion. For what it's worth.

My sentiments exactly, Cobalt. If all F. Paul Wilson's characters were politically correct, his stories would be pretty boring. When I think of Abe, I always picture Mel Brooks making fun of Jews. (Is it wrong for Mel Brooks to impersonate Hitler? Is this a reverse antisemitic prejudice?)

When I think of Jack making Cordova uncomfortable by impersonating an out-of-the closet feminine man, I just think what a smart move Jack made, not how he was putting down the entire gay community. After all, FPW tells us that two of the regulars at Julio's Bar are lesbians, as well as Jack's sister.