Hello y'all,
I love Nightworld. Monsters!
Monsters Monsters MONSTERS!
And all our beloved characters brought together at last to face the enemy. (And the heartbreaking, heroic death of FPW's stand-in.)
However, I'd like my pleasure maximized. I've always wondered what the best way would be to think about the fact that the Otherness's ascent has the power to make the days shorter. I'd rather not have to simply suspend disbelief with respect to something which is so crucial to the book, yet preposterous on the face of it.
I'm not saying any of these explanations are any good, I'm just trying hats on for size. I'd be curious about anyone else's thoughts.
- BIG KAHUNA. This is the one I like least. It says that the Otherness has a blank check and can do whatever it wants. So the shortening of days is literally incomprehensible to us humans. The Otherness is magically doing _something_ to makes our days shorter. What would an observer on Mars see if he looked at Earth during the period of the book's events? How would Earth's oceans and climate remain normal in the absence of the normal periodic motion around the sun? The answer to these and all other questions is: "Who knows? Who cares" It's magic and it all works out somehow."
- EVEN BIGGER KAHUNA. (Really just a variation of the Big Kahuna.) The Otherness's ascent affects not only the Earth (or a region around the Earth), but our entire universe -- our shorter days reflect a softening/warping of the laws of physics in our universe. If the Adversary wins Earth it means it wins our entire universe, and another wee chess piece has fallen to it.
- SUNBLOCK. The Otherness is able to cloak the Earth from the Sun's rays. Earth is still in normal motion around the Sun, we just get less and less light. (I guess the fact that sunrises and sunsets remain normal could be explained by the Otherness having a theatrical bent, like the Joker or Dr. Phibes -- it gradually dims/brightens the sunlight to imitate sunrise and sunset.)
- RELATIVITY. I don't know enough to think this one through much, but I mean some kind of hard sci-fi explanation involving the Otherness placing the Earth in a zone of some kind that's out of phase with the rest of the universe. So, like, from the perspective of every other vantage in the universe the Earth starts moving faster through time, so from our POV our days get shorter. (I realize one problem with this is that presumably the stars would also appear to be moving faster in ye heavens, which doesn't occur. Come on, work with me, people!) In this explanation, the defeat of the Earth at the hands of the Adversary would theoretically be visible to beings in other areas of our universe. Wonder what they'd see?
- HUMAN-CENTERED. Not sure what to do with this one. Something to do with _us_ being effected in such a way that the days seem to get shorter... Like... (thinking our loud here) our perception of night-time expands to fill the entire 24-hour day as our minds perceive it, and our perception of day-time shrinks so, in terms of our experience, it eventually occupies none of the 24-hour day. Something kind of cool about this one (or something like it), though it's very unformed. In this explanation, the defeat of the Earth at the hands of the Adversary would theoretically be visible to beings in other areas of our universe. Wonder what they'd see?
One thing I like, lurking behind the above explanations, is the notion that there are no other sentient/ensoulled beings in our universe, so Earth is really the only game in town. If the Adversary gets the Earth, it gets our entire universe. (It's just that most of it is empty space and a bunch of stars and rocks, which it probably doesn't care a whole lot about.) So, under the "Relativity" option, even if Earth's weird fate were visible from some other vantage point, it wouldn't really matter since there's no one else to see it.
Finally, here's another idea. I think I like this one best, since it seems to explain the most:
- MANY WORLDS. There's many physically identical universes. One of these universes is more special than the others -- it "belongs" to the Adversary. All the planets in the Adversary's universe start out uninhabited, i.e., without any sentient/ensoulled beings. In all the other universes, the planets are inhabited and occupied by sentient beings in accordance with the vagaries of nature/fate.
Now, posit a particular inhabited planet called Crapton in Universe #311. Sadly, the Adversary succeeds in defeating Crapton in U311. "Defeat" means that, in the end, all U311 Craptonians phase out of existence on their home planet and phase into existence in the version of Crapton that exists in the Adversary's evil universe (which had hitherto been unpopulated). Eventually all the U311 Craptonians are killed by monsters. Meanwhile, the Crapton in U311 is now a dead planet.
So, in Nightworld that's what's happening on Earth. The Adversary wants to transfer our population to its version of Earth, in its evil universe, where we'll all eventually be killed (but not before emitting lots of tasty despair). The fact that from our POV the days are getting shorter is that, as the Adversary gains in power, we begin to enter a phase shift, and more and more of our time is spent over in the evil universe's version of Earth. We phase back to our version of the Earth during the daytime, but for shorter and shorter periods of time.
*Ack!* Head hurts.
-o
I love Nightworld. Monsters!
Monsters Monsters MONSTERS!
And all our beloved characters brought together at last to face the enemy. (And the heartbreaking, heroic death of FPW's stand-in.)
However, I'd like my pleasure maximized. I've always wondered what the best way would be to think about the fact that the Otherness's ascent has the power to make the days shorter. I'd rather not have to simply suspend disbelief with respect to something which is so crucial to the book, yet preposterous on the face of it.
I'm not saying any of these explanations are any good, I'm just trying hats on for size. I'd be curious about anyone else's thoughts.
- BIG KAHUNA. This is the one I like least. It says that the Otherness has a blank check and can do whatever it wants. So the shortening of days is literally incomprehensible to us humans. The Otherness is magically doing _something_ to makes our days shorter. What would an observer on Mars see if he looked at Earth during the period of the book's events? How would Earth's oceans and climate remain normal in the absence of the normal periodic motion around the sun? The answer to these and all other questions is: "Who knows? Who cares" It's magic and it all works out somehow."
- EVEN BIGGER KAHUNA. (Really just a variation of the Big Kahuna.) The Otherness's ascent affects not only the Earth (or a region around the Earth), but our entire universe -- our shorter days reflect a softening/warping of the laws of physics in our universe. If the Adversary wins Earth it means it wins our entire universe, and another wee chess piece has fallen to it.
- SUNBLOCK. The Otherness is able to cloak the Earth from the Sun's rays. Earth is still in normal motion around the Sun, we just get less and less light. (I guess the fact that sunrises and sunsets remain normal could be explained by the Otherness having a theatrical bent, like the Joker or Dr. Phibes -- it gradually dims/brightens the sunlight to imitate sunrise and sunset.)
- RELATIVITY. I don't know enough to think this one through much, but I mean some kind of hard sci-fi explanation involving the Otherness placing the Earth in a zone of some kind that's out of phase with the rest of the universe. So, like, from the perspective of every other vantage in the universe the Earth starts moving faster through time, so from our POV our days get shorter. (I realize one problem with this is that presumably the stars would also appear to be moving faster in ye heavens, which doesn't occur. Come on, work with me, people!) In this explanation, the defeat of the Earth at the hands of the Adversary would theoretically be visible to beings in other areas of our universe. Wonder what they'd see?
- HUMAN-CENTERED. Not sure what to do with this one. Something to do with _us_ being effected in such a way that the days seem to get shorter... Like... (thinking our loud here) our perception of night-time expands to fill the entire 24-hour day as our minds perceive it, and our perception of day-time shrinks so, in terms of our experience, it eventually occupies none of the 24-hour day. Something kind of cool about this one (or something like it), though it's very unformed. In this explanation, the defeat of the Earth at the hands of the Adversary would theoretically be visible to beings in other areas of our universe. Wonder what they'd see?
One thing I like, lurking behind the above explanations, is the notion that there are no other sentient/ensoulled beings in our universe, so Earth is really the only game in town. If the Adversary gets the Earth, it gets our entire universe. (It's just that most of it is empty space and a bunch of stars and rocks, which it probably doesn't care a whole lot about.) So, under the "Relativity" option, even if Earth's weird fate were visible from some other vantage point, it wouldn't really matter since there's no one else to see it.
Finally, here's another idea. I think I like this one best, since it seems to explain the most:
- MANY WORLDS. There's many physically identical universes. One of these universes is more special than the others -- it "belongs" to the Adversary. All the planets in the Adversary's universe start out uninhabited, i.e., without any sentient/ensoulled beings. In all the other universes, the planets are inhabited and occupied by sentient beings in accordance with the vagaries of nature/fate.
Now, posit a particular inhabited planet called Crapton in Universe #311. Sadly, the Adversary succeeds in defeating Crapton in U311. "Defeat" means that, in the end, all U311 Craptonians phase out of existence on their home planet and phase into existence in the version of Crapton that exists in the Adversary's evil universe (which had hitherto been unpopulated). Eventually all the U311 Craptonians are killed by monsters. Meanwhile, the Crapton in U311 is now a dead planet.
So, in Nightworld that's what's happening on Earth. The Adversary wants to transfer our population to its version of Earth, in its evil universe, where we'll all eventually be killed (but not before emitting lots of tasty despair). The fact that from our POV the days are getting shorter is that, as the Adversary gains in power, we begin to enter a phase shift, and more and more of our time is spent over in the evil universe's version of Earth. We phase back to our version of the Earth during the daytime, but for shorter and shorter periods of time.
*Ack!* Head hurts.
-o
This post was last modified: 10-04-2005, 03:43 PM by Ossicle.
I take a different perspective on sci-fi/fantasy. I let the author rip. He can write whatever he wants. If it makes sense on the surface and the book flows as a result, that's fine by me.
Too much explanation of the fantastic makes it less...fantastic. I, for one, don't need extensive explanations, but I understand that others might. I've seen these sorts of topics heatedly debated on other sci-fi/fantasy boards.
Too much explanation of the fantastic makes it less...fantastic. I, for one, don't need extensive explanations, but I understand that others might. I've seen these sorts of topics heatedly debated on other sci-fi/fantasy boards.
Reading is freedom.
The mind soars, no earthly cares,
no limitations.
A Maggers Haiku, 2005
Years ago my mother used to say to me... "In this world, Elwood, you can be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
Well, for years I was smart.
I recommend pleasant.
You may quote me.
Elwood P. Dowd
Maggers Wrote:I take a different perspective on sci-fi/fantasy. I let the author rip. He can write whatever he wants. If it makes sense on the surface and the book flows as a result, that's fine by me.
Too much explanation of the fantastic makes it less...fantastic. I, for one, don't need extensive explanations, but I understand that others might. I've seen these sorts of topics heatedly debated on other sci-fi/fantasy boards.
I'm in the middle. I don't really dissect the story. I want to be able to understand the who, what , when, where, why, and how, but I don't need to go any deeper. I'm more character driven. (I'm not actually a big sci-fi guy anyway. I like the sci-fi world mostly for the lack of rules the sci-fi world brings.) I just want it to be good. I want the problems and solutions to be good enough to amaze me. I want to say, "man I never thought of that!". I don't really like obviousness though. The brother act in Infernal felt a little obvious to me. It was one of those deals where you consider it, but discount it as a possible solution because it's too obvious and it probably wouldn't work anyway. When it happens it's a little bit of a let down.
On the other hand the finish in Conspiracies blew my mind! I kept thinking, "What? How? Holy cow!". I guess it's all in the individual.
t4terrific Wrote:...I like the sci-fi world mostly for the lack of rules the sci-fi world brings...
Well put. I never thought of it that way, but that's exactly what appeals to me about sci-fi.
Actually, let me clarify that... I like that sci-fi allows you to BEND the rules.
This post was last modified: 10-04-2005, 05:04 PM by Maggers.
Reading is freedom.
The mind soars, no earthly cares,
no limitations.
A Maggers Haiku, 2005
Years ago my mother used to say to me... "In this world, Elwood, you can be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
Well, for years I was smart.
I recommend pleasant.
You may quote me.
Elwood P. Dowd
I agree with what each of you say, and I'm a pretty soft reader. I want to make it clear that I'm not one of those pedants/literalists who'd try to argue the Himalayas down to a nub. I know what you mean about sci-fi/fantast boards where people will just go nuts and ruin a pleasurable imaginative scenario by arguing about it as if it's last month's telephone bill (what... a.... drag.....), and that's not what I meant. I really was just curious about my own thoughts with respect to what may be happening in Nightworld (which I'd never pursued), and if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject. Still am!
-oss
-oss
I think that SciFi has to adhere to the rules of science, and if it doesn't there needs to be a logical reason for it. I give it some leeway, but that line is dynamic depending on the quality of the story.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. ... The piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
~ Howard Phillips Lovecraft
While I get where you're going here (I've wondered what's physically happening that could possibly make daylight shorter while still keeping 24-hour days intact myself), I think it's kind of missing the point. The entire idea is that whatever the Otherness is doing is utterly incomprehensible to humans, which in turn adds to their anxiety and desperation, thus feeding the Big R's hunger. We're really not supposed to get it, which should add to our disquiet as sympathetic (one hopes) readers.
Blake
Blake
Please support Friends of Washoe.
Blake Wrote:While I get where you're going here (I've wondered what's physically happening that could possibly make daylight shorter while still keeping 24-hour days intact myself), I think it's kind of missing the point. The entire idea is that whatever the Otherness is doing is utterly incomprehensible to humans, which in turn adds to their anxiety and desperation, thus feeding the Big R's hunger. We're really not supposed to get it, which should add to our disquiet as sympathetic (one hopes) readers.
You've pretty much nailed it. I wanted to pull the reality rug from under the characters' feet -- "This can't be happening!" -- "It's impossible!" Well, obviously it's possible because it IS happening. The rules have been changed. Up is now down -- sometimes (you can't even rely on that). As the creep says to Jack: "School's out, man. No more rules!" (or something like that.)
Tossed into this crucible, the good folks will hang on to their values. Why? Because values aren't dependent on circumstances. Yeah, you might steal food if you're starving, but under no circumstances will you steal a TV. You'll feel bad about stealing the food, and when things are better you'll try to make amends. Dire circumstances might make you break from your code, but that's not the same as denying the code's existence.
As for the rest of humanity . . . well, we saw what happened in NO.
FPW
FAQ
"It means 'Ask the next question.' Ask the next question, and the one that follows that, and the one that follows that. It's the symbol of everything humanity has ever created." Theodore Sturgeon.
Blake Wrote:While I get where you're going here (I've wondered what's physically happening that could possibly make daylight shorter while still keeping 24-hour days intact myself), I think it's kind of missing the point. The entire idea is that whatever the Otherness is doing is utterly incomprehensible to humans, which in turn adds to their anxiety and desperation, thus feeding the Big R's hunger. We're really not supposed to get it, which should add to our disquiet as sympathetic (one hopes) readers.
Blake
Thanks, though I don't think I'm missing the point as that pretty much falls under the first explanation I offer.
There's obviously a temperamental difference at work here. By merely broaching the notion of what may be happening in Nightworld I don't mean to try to diminish it in any way, make it mundane, poke holes in it, or (for goodness's sake) turn it into some dreary forum where we wind up arguing (analogously) over whether Data could beat Spock in a fight if they each were tasked to wear Spider-Man Underoos. (Or, as in my prederred scenario, Jeri Ryan could succeed in tearing my pants off.)
Therein lies the temperamental difference: I do happen to find it fun to think about what could possibly explain the events FPW came up with. (And I find that valid, not an example of missing the point.) Other will not enjoy the exercise.
"Only this and nothing more." If it don't float thy boat, don't registereth thyself for the Fall leaf cruise, departing each Saturday at 11 a.m., October 8 - December 2. For God's sake. Montresor.
-oss
Ossicle Wrote:Thanks, though I don't think I'm missing the point as that pretty much falls under the first explanation I offer.
There's obviously a temperamental difference at work here. By merely broaching the notion of what may be happening in Nightworld I don't mean to try to diminish it in any way, make it mundane, poke holes in it, or (for goodness's sake) turn it into some dreary forum where we wind up arguing (analogously) over whether Data could beat Spock in a fight if they each were tasked to wear Spider-Man Underoos. (Or, as in my prederred scenario, Jeri Ryan could succeed in tearing my pants off.)
Therein lies the temperamental difference: I do happen to find it fun to think about what could possibly explain the events FPW came up with. (And I find that valid, not an example of missing the point.) Other will not enjoy the exercise.
"Only this and nothing more." If it don't float thy boat, don't registereth thyself for the Fall leaf cruise, departing each Saturday at 11 a.m., October 8 - December 2. For God's sake. Montresor.
-oss
I will say, though, that one effect of the replies so far is to make me re-thinkg my initial dislike of the "magic explains it all" explanation (what I called the Big Kahuna). I guess it's the explanation that fits the best, and I guess I can smoosh myself a bit to find it the most satisfying. (If I put on my science geek beanie, I'd stick with my Many Worlds interpretation, but I guess in the end such a thing just seems unnecessary.)
-oss