Hey, I'm not judging her at all...only her comedic merit and her choices in self-promotion. I find the hollywood scene troubling at best, and am appalled at the lengths some people go to to draw attention to themselves, that's all. You say it was all just a coincidence...OK, I'm fine with that. It's possible, maybe not likely, but possible.

I'm sure that she and her publicity people, like every other person in Hollywood, will use whatever they can to promote themselves. That's the name of the game. Soooo....

To sum up, I think we can leave this topic alone now.

To sum up, I think we can leave this topic alone now.

Fine with me.

Wow, I'm a bit surprised at the turns this thread took. I guess we've never gotten into the discussion of the power of a word. Me personally, I always wondered why some words are acceptable and other words describing the same thing are not. Even when used with passion or loathing, different words, describing the same thing, can be good or bad. For me, the word in question never comes up unless it's at work and that's in construction, so you can just imagine (or maybe not) the way the full word can be used. I thought Sublime was just shortening a word because it's typed. Happens everywhere. Maybe I'm out of the loop as far as what's acceptable, But I could think of half a dozen words right of the bat that are worse then Lesbo.If he wanted to cause offense, he would have used those. I'm quite sure this post won't make me popular, but I still find it funny how much power a word can have.


KRW

Well, the old childhood rhyme

Sticks and stones may break my bones
but names can never harm me.

is total baloney.

Speaking from childhood experience, where I was called a variety of unkind names because I was a chubby girl, I am here to tell you that words do have power, tremendous power. They can sting, they can hurt, and the pain can go deep.

Words can stir armies and calm babies. Never underestimate the power of the word, especially the written word, which lingers long after it's put on the page.

So, with all that, I'm careful of the descriptive terms I use for people, and that comes directly from my personal experience.


(*and, again, I shall step down from my soapbox.*)

I thought Sublime was just shortening a word because it's typed. Happens everywhere. Maybe I'm out of the loop as far as what's acceptable, But I could think of half a dozen words right of the bat that are worse then Lesbo.If he wanted to cause offense, he would have used those.

IMO it was not just the word (which is bad enough) but the way he used it. I don't agree with his opinion that Ellen Degeneres is famous only because she is a lesbian, but if he phrased it that way I could have lived with the wording if not the sentiment. However, this is what he wrote:

I didn't know Ellen Degenerous was supposed to be funny. I just thought that she was a televised lesbo.

Replace the comedian and the epithet. BTW I am specifically choosing these people because they use their ethnicity in parts of their routines, similar to the way Ellen talked about lesbianism on her show.

"I didn't know John Leguizamo was supposed to be funny. I just thought that he was a televised spic."

"I didn't know Chris Rock was supposed to be funny. I just thought that he was a televised nigger."

"I didn't know Margaret Cho was supposed to be funny. I just thought that she was a televised chink."

To me it looks like Sublime was called out on a remark that is clearly bigoted, and is now trying to backpedal. To me it looks like he's so steeped in the idea that gays are somehow (even if just sexually) inferior to people like him (e.g. straights) that his original comment above does not strike him as the bigoted remark it is. To me it looks like Sublime expects gays to be held to a different standard than straight people and not talk about/admit their sexuality in public.

But, Sublime says he didn't mean anything by it. So whatever.

Lisa

IMO it was not just the word (which is bad enough) but the way he used it. I don't agree with his opinion that Ellen Degeneres is famous only because she is a lesbian, but if he phrased it that way I could have lived with the wording if not the sentiment. However, this is what he wrote:



Replace the comedian and the epithet. BTW I am specifically choosing these people because they use their ethnicity in parts of their routines, similar to the way Ellen talked about lesbianism on her show.

"I didn't know John Leguizamo was supposed to be funny. I just thought that he was a televised spic."

"I didn't know Chris Rock was supposed to be funny. I just thought that he was a televised nigger."

"I didn't know Margaret Cho was supposed to be funny. I just thought that she was a televised chink."

To me it looks like Sublime was called out on a remark that is clearly bigoted, and is now trying to backpedal. To me it looks like he's so steeped in the idea that gays are somehow (even if just sexually) inferior to people like him (e.g. straights) that his original comment above does not strike him as the bigoted remark it is. To me it looks like Sublime expects gays to be held to a different standard than straight people and not talk about/admit their sexuality in public.

But, Sublime says he didn't mean anything by it. So whatever.

Lisa

I'm sorry Lisa, I also said I didn't know any differant either. I didn't take it the way you did. But it's the power of the word. You used three in your examples, but if you used there proper words that are acceptable in the same context and meaning, what is the differance? I know some words are acceptable and others are not, But there is no book telling us what they are
or in what company to use them. Like I said, I thought he was shortening a word, and typing on forums that's very common. As far as me, and I'm sure Sublime will not make the mistake again, This word is now taboo.


KRW

"I didn't know John Leguizamo was supposed to be funny. I just thought that he was a televised spic."

"I didn't know Chris Rock was supposed to be funny. I just thought that he was a televised nigger."

"I didn't know Margaret Cho was supposed to be funny. I just thought that she was a televised chink."

[

Well, I can't speak for what sublime meant (only he can vouch for that), but you're comparing a lifestyle with race and I really don't think you can trivialize the plight of a minority group in America by comparing African-Americans (or any other of your racial comparisons) and lesbians. It's absurd.

And for the record, I don't think John Leguizamo or Margaret Cho are very funny, but Chris Rock is!

I apologized, what more do you want? There is nothing I can do. You feel the need to continue poking me with your incorrect breakdown of my true meaning of the initial post. I am not back-peddling but I am sorry for causing you so much grief. Saying something like, "To me it looks like Sublime was called out on a remark that is clearly bigoted," sounds To me to be rather jerky.

To me it looks like he's so steeped in the idea that gays are somehow (even if just sexually) inferior to people like him (e.g. straights) that his original comment above does not strike him as the bigoted remark it is.

Ignorant and, once again, you are being a jerk. Actually, I'm an innocent in this conversation. I didn't know that the N-word was bad until I moved to MD and became good friends with blacks, and hicks for that matter. I have never pushed away homosexuals because they are what they are. I don't care. I had many classes that had gay people in them. I wasn't cruel to them. I didn't throw rolls at them in lunch. I didn't talk bad about them behind their backs. But you didn't take the time to find out before calling me a biggot or saying what kind of person I am.

To me it looks like Sublime expects gays to be held to a different standard than straight people and not talk about/admit their sexuality in public.

These are some major accusations you are swinging at me. And considering how you are gathering them, I would hate to see how your brain works. I hate gays (is that offensive, I don't know) because I used the word "lesbo," once, publically.

But, Sublime says he didn't mean anything by it. So whatever.

After you tear into me, you say this. If you truely have this "whatever" attitude of it, you would have let it go after my initial apology. But you don't and you can't. I said I would say it...get a life.

As far as me, and I'm sure Sublime will not make the mistake again, This word is now taboo.

100% correct.

you're comparing a lifestyle with race and I really don't think you can trivialize the plight of a minority group in America by comparing African-Americans (or any other of your racial comparisons) and lesbians. It's absurd.

Thank you, I couldn't find a way to say it, so I was going to leave it out.

Again, I'm so sorry for the grief that the one word I used has caused. I will apologize 100 times if it will help. I will get on my knees and beg forgivness if it will help. Just tell me what I can do.

After saying this, I'm done for the night, and probably for a long time considering Lisa is a mod. Oh well. As bad as me saying the word "lesbo," I find it twice as bad to stamp someone as a biggot with little evidence.

Sublime, I don't "want" anything from you. I don't even particularly care if you apologize. You (and several other people) didn't seem to be understanding how your comment could be considered so offensive, so I attempted to explain. And I stand by what I said about you being disingenuous. If that makes me a jerk in your eyes, oh well.

(BTW, Susan and I are mods to help FPW out with the board, since his web guys are very busy. We mainly just post notices and organize activities. We don't censor or delete or modify other people's stuff. So don't consider us different than anyone else here.)

Lisa

Sublime, I don't "want" anything from you. I don't even particularly care if you apologize. You (and several other people) didn't seem to be understanding how your comment could be considered so offensive, so I attempted to explain. And I stand by what I said about you being disingenuous. If that makes me a jerk in your eyes, oh well.

(BTW, Susan and I are mods to help FPW out with the board, since his web guys are very busy. We mainly just post notices and organize activities. We don't censor or delete or modify other people's stuff. So don't consider us different than anyone else here.)

Lisa

An apology is nothing to take light. There would be no apology if it was not understood how you (and others) felt. So throw the apology away, I don't undestand. Remember, this all started from one word in the English slang (so it has been said) who dismisses an apology like that?


KRW