***SPOILERS***
I finally finished it today at lunch. I was very happy with it. It is either my favorite or second (behind the Gunslinger) in the series. I admit that I was somewhat disappointed in the quick death of Marten/Flagg. But that was mainly based on his presence in books other than the seven Dark Tower books. I was somewhat underwhelmed by Eddie's death, but overwhelmed with emotion at Jake's death, and to a slightly smaller extent Oy's.
The ending was perfect in my opinion. It combined Roland's persistence and single-mindedness into both a strength and weakness. It showed that fate (ka) plays a role but at the same time a person can learn and change his fate (Roland picks up the Horn of Gilead).
Immediately upon finishing the book I was filled with all kinds of opposite emotions: happiness, sadness, anger, calm, etc. But these emotions weren't conflicting with each other inside me; they were complementing each other. The only analogy I could think of was yin and yang.
![[Image: yin-yang.JPG]](http://www.minhachina.com/lendas/image/yin-yang.JPG)
To address some of the criticisms mentioned in previous posts:
There is no resolution.
I think the point of the story is that there is often no resolution. Life is a journey, a quest. The joy and wonderment is in the journey not in reaching the destination.
Marten and The Crimson King and Mordred were killed too easily.
This is symbolic of the fact that the evils and obstacles of this world that we face are often not as significant as we perceive them to be. We spend so much time chasing or being chased by some things that when we finally catch them or are caught by them they are often a let-down.
The motivations of the evil characters were stupid and shallow.
I think this is basically a statement about evil in general. It is so minor and insignificant relative to the force of GOOD (whatever you want to call it). It is ultimately self-defeating.
Important characters were left out.
First of all, I think it would be nearly impossible to work all the characters into the main story. That is why there are sub-plots to begin with. Characters such as Jack Sawyer were important to their own sub-plots but not directly to Roland's quest. More on that below.
Stephen King writes himself into his books due to ego.
I honestly don't believe this to be true. I believe him when he says that he just writes down the story as it comes (is presented) to him. I think he felt that his inclusion in the story was both necessary and unavoidable.
I want to specifically address Mailedbypostman and ALowerDeep on a couple of issues, respectively:
1) Why do you think that reading the Dark Tower "obliterates any reason to read other Stephen King books"? I find it to be exactly the opposite. I feel the desire to go back and read much of his early work to re-examine how it all fits into the recently-completed puzzle, especially Insomnia (which I didn't honestly care much for the first time), Eyes of the Dragon (same), and 'Salem's Lot (the Father Callahan arc mainly).
2) You state that Jack Sawyer saves "the most powerful breaker ever in Black House" and that "he most certainly saved the tower single handedly." I would posit that Jack is unknowingly doing a bad thing, just as Dinky Earnshaw was in Everything's Eventual. The Breakers are trying to destroy the beams and, therefore, saving Tyler was actually a bad thing; it helped to advance the purpose of the Crimson King.
Finally, I am intriqued by cyber-jack's idea of breaking the cycle, of Roland relenting and turning away from his quest.
I finally finished it today at lunch. I was very happy with it. It is either my favorite or second (behind the Gunslinger) in the series. I admit that I was somewhat disappointed in the quick death of Marten/Flagg. But that was mainly based on his presence in books other than the seven Dark Tower books. I was somewhat underwhelmed by Eddie's death, but overwhelmed with emotion at Jake's death, and to a slightly smaller extent Oy's.
The ending was perfect in my opinion. It combined Roland's persistence and single-mindedness into both a strength and weakness. It showed that fate (ka) plays a role but at the same time a person can learn and change his fate (Roland picks up the Horn of Gilead).
Immediately upon finishing the book I was filled with all kinds of opposite emotions: happiness, sadness, anger, calm, etc. But these emotions weren't conflicting with each other inside me; they were complementing each other. The only analogy I could think of was yin and yang.
To address some of the criticisms mentioned in previous posts:
There is no resolution.
I think the point of the story is that there is often no resolution. Life is a journey, a quest. The joy and wonderment is in the journey not in reaching the destination.
Marten and The Crimson King and Mordred were killed too easily.
This is symbolic of the fact that the evils and obstacles of this world that we face are often not as significant as we perceive them to be. We spend so much time chasing or being chased by some things that when we finally catch them or are caught by them they are often a let-down.
The motivations of the evil characters were stupid and shallow.
I think this is basically a statement about evil in general. It is so minor and insignificant relative to the force of GOOD (whatever you want to call it). It is ultimately self-defeating.
Important characters were left out.
First of all, I think it would be nearly impossible to work all the characters into the main story. That is why there are sub-plots to begin with. Characters such as Jack Sawyer were important to their own sub-plots but not directly to Roland's quest. More on that below.
Stephen King writes himself into his books due to ego.
I honestly don't believe this to be true. I believe him when he says that he just writes down the story as it comes (is presented) to him. I think he felt that his inclusion in the story was both necessary and unavoidable.
I want to specifically address Mailedbypostman and ALowerDeep on a couple of issues, respectively:
1) Why do you think that reading the Dark Tower "obliterates any reason to read other Stephen King books"? I find it to be exactly the opposite. I feel the desire to go back and read much of his early work to re-examine how it all fits into the recently-completed puzzle, especially Insomnia (which I didn't honestly care much for the first time), Eyes of the Dragon (same), and 'Salem's Lot (the Father Callahan arc mainly).
2) You state that Jack Sawyer saves "the most powerful breaker ever in Black House" and that "he most certainly saved the tower single handedly." I would posit that Jack is unknowingly doing a bad thing, just as Dinky Earnshaw was in Everything's Eventual. The Breakers are trying to destroy the beams and, therefore, saving Tyler was actually a bad thing; it helped to advance the purpose of the Crimson King.
Finally, I am intriqued by cyber-jack's idea of breaking the cycle, of Roland relenting and turning away from his quest.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. ... The piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
~ Howard Phillips Lovecraft
Well i don't want to address everything you said but let me just say these few hings real quick. When i said Jack Sawyer saved the ost powerful breaker i meant that he saved him form the Crimson King using him (RE:BLACK HOUSE). And secondly your telling me that the Crimson King's motive was logical i mean come on this is a epic collection of novels and the main villains motive is crap look at Rasalom he has a real motive and he doesn't die with a single gunshot. King is a egotist and he wasnt necessary screw all the real world messages with evil being self defeating. When i read a book that pits good against evil i want a real battle not some philosophical nonsense to justify and ending. Nightworld was a real battle of good vs evil and Rasalom isnt taken out with a eraser either fpw puts King to shame in every aspect. A message to mr king try and be more like fpw....
ALOWERDEEP
ALOWERDEEP
ALowerDeep Wrote:Well i don't want to address everything you said but let me just say these few hings real quick. When i said Jack Sawyer saved the ost powerful breaker i meant that he saved him form the Crimson King using him (RE:BLACK HOUSE).
As much as I appreciate what you're trying to say I still disagree with your entire argument that Jack Sawyer should have been in The Dark Tower series. I have read a lot of King's work and I like the fact he is working the stories together but for the average Joe that may not be reading everything King it might be too much. A Jack Sawyer addition would be great for the fans but may have become overwhelming for the average reader.
And if you think about it, King may be trying to keep The Talisman series seperate from The Dark Tower series even though they exist within the same universe. I mean, it's the only other "series" he has.
Quote:And secondly your telling me that the Crimson King's motive was logical i mean come on this is a epic collection of novels and the main villains motive is crap look at Rasalom he has a real motive and he doesn't die with a single gunshot.
The Crimson King's motives ARE logical. He's insane and wants to destroy the tower so he can rule Todash or, at least, beat Roland to the tower. Why is that such a bad motive?
Quote:Nightworld was a real battle of good vs evil and Rasalom isnt taken out with a eraser either fpw puts King to shame in every aspect.
Nightworld is a great battle of good vs evil. No one will dispute you on that. But The Adversary Cycle and The Dark Tower series are two different monsters altogether. Comparing the two is as illogical as comparing apples and pork.
Jack Sawyer is Jake Chambers.
Author of "Survivor" - http://www.vaughnripley.com
"Adventure is worthwile in itself."
—Amelia Earhart
the Oracle Wrote:Jack Sawyer is Jake Chambers.What are you smokin'? :p
Seriously, I don't think that is possible. Jack grows to be much older than Jake does. And it is stated in the Talisman that Jack does not have a "twinner."
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. ... The piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
~ Howard Phillips Lovecraft
jimbow8 Wrote:What are you smokin'? :p(:
Seriously, I don't think that is possible. Jack grows to be much older than Jake does. And it is stated in the Talisman that Jack does not have a "twinner."
Just thought I would stir the pot. It is fun to see what people argue about...
I am a people watcher at heart!
(:
Author of "Survivor" - http://www.vaughnripley.com
"Adventure is worthwile in itself."
—Amelia Earhart
alright we agree to disagree i am just a frustrated reader. I personally feel like i was cheated but i know that many people do not feel that way. Overall it was a fun series at least the first couple and i guess no matter how it ended it would have been a disappointment to some readers regardless. Oh well at least now i can concentrate on the RJ books that are upcoming and just enjoy that since i know how that ends already ends and loved all the nightworld cycle books. Merry Christmas to all the RJ Board members and to FPW too.
ALOWERDEEP
ALOWERDEEP
Maybe I'm kidding myself but I loved the last 3 tower books!
I was v. disappointed JS never appeared but interviews with PS indicate there may be a T3 - here's hoping!!
Calla was overlong but still brilliant
Susannah - excellent but never really went anywhere. It always felt like an interim. (a la Empire Strikes Back)
DT7 - SUPERB. Apart from the fact that Patrick's story wasn't explained (see T3)
cheers
5t3v3
I was v. disappointed JS never appeared but interviews with PS indicate there may be a T3 - here's hoping!!
Calla was overlong but still brilliant
Susannah - excellent but never really went anywhere. It always felt like an interim. (a la Empire Strikes Back)
DT7 - SUPERB. Apart from the fact that Patrick's story wasn't explained (see T3)
cheers
5t3v3