LOL, in this particular instance, yes, that's true.

But Ben is SO guilty of SO many things on this show. He may turn out to be an angel in disguise, but if he is, boy, is he deeeeeep under cover. LOL

Yeah, I meant in that particular instance LOL...thanks for clearing that up.

Go back and re-watch the episode. You'll see that Ben did not expect that to happen to his daughter. He was going off of a set of predetermined rules and Keamy changed those rules.

All Ben is guilty of is underestimating Martin Keamy.

When a life is threatened one shouldn't play chicken. Ben lost and his daughter paid.

LOL, in this particular instance, yes, that's true.

But Ben is SO guilty of SO many things on this show. He may turn out to be an angel in disguise, but if he is, boy, is he deeeeeep under cover. LOL

Ben as an angel? A savior? To his own end and agenda, maybe. LOL

I saw this on another board and thought I'd share the complete statement here:

I was thinking about the Rules that Ben brought up in past episodes. I don't know very much about Backgammon, but I know that they mentioned it quite a bit at the start of the series. And I remember that Locke was a fan of the game.

In backgammon, you can't take your opponents piece, you can only set it back. Also, in order to win you have to get all of your pieces in the end board together at once before you can start scoring them. Could Jakob and another side be playing some kind of game of cosmic backgammon with people as players, or is my insomnia getting to me?

This would be interesting but I think Whidmore wants it for a more personal reason. For some reason I've always taken the rules as more the rules of either the Others or the rules of the island, and less so the rules of a game. I sort of took it as you don't kill someone on the island because if they die on the island theyre dead for good. I could be crazy I just didn't really take it as a game because both Ben and Whidmore seem too interested in the island for personal reasons for puting it up in some kind of game.

No big reveal. Long ago, Danielle told her story of how she came to be on the Island, of how her ship of research scientists heard the numbers being repeated over and over, how they came to inspect but got caught in a storm and were shipwrecked. She told of being shipwrecked and pregnant and how she had to deliver her baby alone after she killed all of her research crew, and how the Others came and took the baby.

Ben became the adoptive father, again by his own admission.

We never saw any of it. We only heard Danielle tell her story.

I wonder if the disease that Danielle was so terrified of, the disease that got to her shipmates and for which she felt she had to kill them so as not to let the disease spread off the Island, was actually the time traveling after effects. If they came to the Island without following the specific coordinates that seem to keep travelers safe, they could have the same illness that the people on board the freighter had and that Theresa, Daniel's female friend sick in bed in London, has.

Oh, and there was mention made of "how Montand (sounds like Montan) lost his arm," sometime when Arndtz was still alive, think it was the episode when they all traveled to the Black Rock to get the dynamite. Back then, we weren't sure who Montand was, but it was apparent it was one of her research scientist shipmates.

Ha! I remembered it correctly, down to Montand and his arm!

More to come...episode is still playing...

Faraday's mother is named Eloise Hawking? As in Stephen Hawking? She is the one I've called the clock woman. I should have said the pendulum woman.

Faraday is a time traveler, yet he doesn't remember his travels. Charlotte remembers him from her youth, that she spent on the island.
Charlotte remembers the Orchid and the well that John climbs down into. And that rope trick....was neat!

So, what does everyone else think?

That episode was awesome! I knew Charlotte would die but it still sucked. They should've kept her and killed off Juliet (sorry can't stand that bitch). The arm was gross and cool. What I want to know is who is Charlotte's father. She mentioned twice (I think) that only her and her mum left. So I think her father must be someone important to the show.

Rousseu killing all her ship mates now makes some sense. They went into the hole after their friend....and came out changed. The arm thing was gross, but I hate to say it....there wasn't enough blood lost when it happened....that poor man would have bled a river.
I also thought it was interesting that Jin went through the shifts to catch up to his time.

Faraday's mother is named Eloise Hawking? As in Stephen Hawking?

Yes, I said that a ways back. I thought Eloise was Daniel's mother from the start of this season. Remember Daniel named his time traveling test mouse Eloise?

Mrs. Hawking, as she was known when she first showed up in the episode where she wouldn't sell Desmond the engagement ring for Penny, is the author's sly wink to Stephen Hawking, but that was noted a couple of years ago when she first showed up.

Mrs. Hawking also popped up in a picture on the desk of the monk who trained Desmond in the abbey back in the episode where we found out how Desmond and Penny met.

Eloise Hawking is the same Eloise that was the young rifle toting angry girl OTHER from the "Jughead" episode, who looked so familiar to Daniel.


Tonight's episode was FANTASTIC. Just awesome.

Ben oh Ben oh Ben. What a rat fink. What trickster. What a guy. How is he gonna end up? As an angel or a true devil?

This was my favorite episode this season. It was awesome. Did anyone else think it was funny or was I overthinking how Ben reacted to Des saying he was there for Faraday's mother? I Can't wait to see what locke goes through off the island. I am also wondering who Charlottes father was, it has to be someone important to point it out. So does the island stop shifting through time now? I kind of took it as the time was shifting because the wheel was off a little and if Locke pushed it and it went into place does that fix it?