Kinda sorta. Perhaps the Otherness can do whatever it wants as your first hypothesis states. But it could also be that there are rules that do apply to the Otherness that are simply different rules than those that comply with our experience... [snip]

Blake

Thanks for all that! And I do appreciate the nuances of what you were saying more, now -- you're right that it is not comprised by my first explanation. I learn something new every day! Feel cells dividing at a fantastic rate... growing stronger... shirt ripping!

-oss

I seldom agree with you 100%, Biggles, but I do here. I believe there could be multiple alternate universes, and I absolutely believe that past, present and future occur simultaneously. I love the movie "What the (blank) Do We Know?" because it deals very realistically and relatively simply with just these complex ideas.

Me three! I love the idea of time's passage being an illusion, and all moments are actually simultaneous and squashed into some kind of weird multidimensional ball. "Where are the dinosaurs?" "Uh, they're still here. You just have to kind of squint."

"What the bleep do we know?" is a fun movie. I liked seeing the first principle from Buffy in his cameo as an obtrusive little weirdo. Also, I used to work for one of the people they kept interviewing, David Albert. Great guy, fantastically interesting ideas. Tragedy is that he can't write.

-oss

I seldom agree with you 100%, Biggles, but I do here. I believe there could be multiple alternate universes, and I absolutely believe that past, present and future occur simultaneously. I love the movie "What the (blank) Do We Know?" because it deals very realistically and relatively simply with just these complex ideas.

Not to bring religion into the equation, but that theory that all time exists simultaneously also dovetails nicely with Easten Orthodox Christianity. It's consistent with the idea that God has no beginning and no end, that the Trinity has always existed, even if Christ is the "son" of God, and even with the idea that the universe was created in 6 "days". There's a passage in the Bible about a "day" to God being like a thousand years to us, but I think the Bible was trying to simplify concepts that humans then (and now) can't easily grasp. I don't agree with fundamentalist Christians who think the Earth is only a few thousand years old (they use some kind of calculation based upon all the begatting in Genesis). I think the Earth is likely Billions of years old, but to God (and to a much lesser extent Dick Clark and Carol Channing), the whole concept of time is meaningless. Time is a human construct, so we can define it as we wish.

God doesn't really care--when you're God, you make your own schedule. Plus, you get to work from home, which is really nice. The hours suck though; you don't get all the credit you deserve when things go right; and everyone blames you when things go bad. You DO get to slow roast all those idiot dead terrorists who were expecting to spend eternity with X number of virgins, though. That's a definite perk.

Not to bring religion into the equation, but that theory that all time exists simultaneously also dovetails nicely with Easten Orthodox Christianity. It's consistent with the idea that God has no beginning and no end, that the Trinity has always existed, even if Christ is the "son" of God, and even with the idea that the universe was created in 6 "days". There's a passage in the Bible about a "day" to God being like a thousand years to us, but I think the Bible was trying to simplify concepts that humans then (and now) can't easily grasp. I don't agree with fundamentalist Christians who think the Earth is only a few thousand years old (they use some kind of calculation based upon all the begatting in Genesis). I think the Earth is likely Billions of years old, but to God (and to a much lesser extent Dick Clark and Carol Channing), the whole concept of time is meaningless. Time is a human construct, so we can define it as we wish.

God doesn't really care--when you're God, you make your own schedule. Plus, you get to work from home, which is really nice. The hours suck though; you don't get all the credit you deserve when things go right; and everyone blames you when things go bad. You DO get to slow roast all those idiot dead terrorists who were expecting to spend eternity with X number of virgins, though. That's a definite perk.

That's an interesting way to put it. I have always believed something similar: that God exist in a "dimension" outside of time. It isn't linear. To God all of time exists at once. It isn't that God can see into the future but that all things exist now (to Him) and He can see it all. I understand it but have always had a hard time verbalizing and explaining it.

I didn't know that was an Orthodox thing (or is it just yours). Do you have any more info on it?

Thanx, Jim

That's an interesting way to put it. I have always believed something similar: that God exist in a "dimension" outside of time. It isn't linear. To God all of time exists at once. It isn't that God can see into the future but that all things exist now (to Him) and He can see it all. I understand it but have always had a hard time verbalizing and explaining it.

I didn't know that was an Orthodox thing (or is it just yours). Do you have any more info on it?

Thanx, Jim

Sounds a little like Slaughterhouse Five.

Nightworld: "I don't understand any of this. But then, I'm not supposed to. That's the whole point."

That's a terrific approach too. It lets both the author and the reader off the hook.

.... I think the Earth is likely Billions of years old, but to God (and to a much lesser extent Dick Clark and Carol Channing), the whole concept of time is meaningless.

ROFL, I nearly fell off my chair laughing!

I didn't know that was an Orthodox thing (or is it just yours). Do you have any more info on it?

Thanx, Jim

I'm not much of a theologian. The Liturgy emphasizes setting aside "worldly cares", and use of phrases such as "now and ever and unto the ages of ages" combined with references (which I can't point to offhand) to things being "always existing" and "always the same" just kind of add up to what I'm saying. You may want to start by looking at the Nicene Creed (it's a bit different from the Roman Catholic version).

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text...nicene.txt

I'm not a very spiritual person, and certainly not very well-read in such matters.

I'm not much of a theologian. The Liturgy emphasizes setting aside "worldly cares", and use of phrases such as "now and ever and unto the ages of ages" combined with references (which I can't point to offhand) to things being "always existing" and "always the same" just kind of add up to what I'm saying. You may want to start by looking at the Nicene Creed (it's a bit different from the Roman Catholic version).

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text...nicene.txt

I'm not a very spiritual person, and certainly not very well-read in such matters.

Actually, the Nicene creed is the one that Catholics use. I think the Protestants use the Apostles' Creed.

Actually, the Nicene creed is the one that Catholics use. I think the Protestants use the Apostles' Creed.

The Roman Catholic Church modified the Nicene Creed from the original (pre-schism) version. Remember that the Pope used to be just one of the Catholic Patriarchs (back when Catholic really meant "catholic", that is "universal"). The Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church is the Church that was left when the Pope split from it.