Mike, could not agree with you more on the first point, which I alluded to in my comments. EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is the best movie for many reasons, dialog and direction included, and Lucas really left control of the movie in the hands of experts here.

You caught me waving around generalizations about Kirk. This is not to deny thinking played some role in STAR TREK, but in virtually every episode Kirk does bow down to the god of network programming aimed at attracting men 18-45. But fighting extends beyond the fists, and ARENA is one big fight, with the only twist coming at the end as Kirk shows his "humanity." GAMESTERS OF TRISKELION opens with fisticuffs, and continues as Kirk battles his Thrall and wins. The crew win their freedom also after Kirk battles three people at once, gladiator style.

Spock, the cerebral character, often is mocked for his logic, especially by that most human of characters, Dr. McCoy.

The part about STAR TREK is that in the original series and NEXT GENERATION, a lot of writing went into examining what it means to be human, especially among the stars and aliens. DATA's aspirations to become more human made him a favorite of mine.

What I meant about ARENA is Kirk contriving a primitive cannon to defeat the Gorn--good thinking there, though I doubt =very= much that raw diamonds could take the place of powdered carbon in gunpowder. (In fact, I =know= that just ain't right! With me, Ken V.?) But Anders, isn't conflict, whether internal or external, the essence of fiction? (I'm not talking about French art films here. :eek: ) And didn't TOS and TNG show both to fine advantage? (BTW, Anders, what was your favorite episode of TOS and TNG? Ponder deeply--you get only one!)

James Kirk relied on his brawn so he would have an excuse to take his shirt off in every episode, much to my pre-teen delight. Well, hey, I still enjoy reruns of Jim's buff chest and fisticuffs. :p

Two points, Anders:
1) George Lucas can =not= write dialog.
2) Kirk didn't =always= rely on his physical prowess (think ARENA, for example.) And which episode was it?--THE GAMESTERS OF TRISKELION, mebbe?--where Sulu asks the noble captain, "How long are we going to put up with this?" And Kirk replies, "Until we can think our way out of it." And that line turned up in a Bob Dylan song! :p

Another great Kirk Quote: The Corbomite Manever, I think "We've got him just where he wants us"

Another great Kirk Quote: The Corbomite Manever, I think "We've got him just where he wants us"

And where was the First Federation when we needed their titanic ships to help us deal with the Borg?!

And where was the First Federation when we needed their titanic ships to help us deal with the Borg?!

They were snockered on Trania!!

They were snockered on Trania!!

Well put, Keith! LOL!

Another great Kirk Quote: The Corbomite Manever, I think "We've got him just where he wants us"

He used a variation of that quote in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as well (talking to Decker about V'ger).

Blake

He used a variation of that quote in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as well (talking to Decker about V'ger).

Blake

Ya know, I could be mistaken about it being in TOS, I believe I only heard it once, and TMP may have been it!!

I have to vote for Trek over Wars. I think part of it is when you saw them first. For me Trek in college, Wars when I was taking my very young children to see it.

I really liked the newest Wars movie. The best of the series IMO.

But I think the best Trek movies (II, III, IV, VI and VIII, especially IV), and the best TV series (TOS and DS9...sorry TNG never made the cut with me), were much more entertaining than any of the Wars movies.

Also I agree that Babylon 5 was terrific ie: better than TNG, VOY, or ENT.

I have to vote for Trek over Wars. I think part of it is when you saw them first. For me Trek in college, Wars when I was taking my very young children to see it.

I really liked the newest Wars movie. The best of the series IMO.

But I think the best Trek movies (II, III, IV, VI and VIII, especially IV), and the best TV series (TOS and DS9...sorry TNG never made the cut with me), were much more entertaining than any of the Wars movies.

Also I agree that Babylon 5 was terrific ie: better than TNG, VOY, or ENT.

I don't like ST4. Never thought it was a good ST movie. ST8 is the best by far, then ST2.

I just finished Babylon 5 Season 1.

No spoilers please!