Has anyone out there read the last dark tower book? i am sure there are quite a few and wanted to see what some of you thought about how it ended. I read it in two days and originally loved it. Now however i feel differently. I feel cheated because i look back on the first four books of the series plus the numerous tie ins and it seems like everything just went crazy all of the sudden for Mr.Kings need to put himself in the damn book. Some publications said it was daring and ambitious but i think its more of boosting his ego. The entire series headed in one direction and than poof out comes wolves of the calla and everything is completely different. We as readers were led to believe by Kings comments and by tie ins that things would be resolved and situations explained. However that is bull because for one Marten, Rolands arch enemy, is disposed of in three pages and never once confronts roland or the katet. Second what marten is, is never explained nor what his motivations are. That really made me upset to have no resolution with the whole Marten vs Roland feud. Third some important chracters like Jack Sawyer were never mentioned. 4th the characters that were brought in didnt play very important roles and just disappear. 5th The Crimson King the big baddie of all King books is reduced to a lunatic with no explanation as to what he is and why he doesnt want the tower to stand. Not a damn thing is explained about him except how he poisoned some servants of his. 6th the battle of the Crimson King vs Roland is pitiful. It's basically roland dodging bombs while the crimson king yells and continues to throw more. One would think that a monstrous and powerful being such as the crimson king would be able to do more than lob bombs but apparently King wanted to end the series real quick and and had him erased leaving his eyes (o the drama). I could go on and on but i am spent and had to get that off my chest as a reader that spent alot of time and money and wound up with very little satifaction in the end.
ALOWERDEEP
ALOWERDEEP
ALowerDeep Wrote:Has anyone out there read the last dark tower book? i am sure there are quite a few and wanted to see what some of you thought about how it ended. I read it in two days and originally loved it. Now however i feel differently. I feel cheated because i look back on the first four books of the series plus the numerous tie ins and it seems like everything just went crazy all of the sudden for Mr.Kings need to put himself in the damn book. Some publications said it was daring and ambitious but i think its more of boosting his ego. The entire series headed in one direction and than poof out comes wolves of the calla and everything is completely different. We as readers were led to believe by Kings comments and by tie ins that things would be resolved and situations explained. However that is bull because for one Marten, Rolands arch enemy, is disposed of in three pages and never once confronts roland or the katet. Second what marten is, is never explained nor what his motivations are. That really made me upset to have no resolution with the whole Marten vs Roland feud. Third some important chracters like Jack Sawyer were never mentioned. 4th the characters that were brought in didnt play very important roles and just disappear. 5th The Crimson King the big baddie of all King books is reduced to a lunatic with no explanation as to what he is and why he doesnt want the tower to stand. Not a damn thing is explained about him except how he poisoned some servants of his. 6th the battle of the Crimson King vs Roland is pitiful. It's basically roland dodging bombs while the crimson king yells and continues to throw more. One would think that a monstrous and powerful being such as the crimson king would be able to do more than lob bombs but apparently King wanted to end the series real quick and and had him erased leaving his eyes (o the drama). I could go on and on but i am spent and had to get that off my chest as a reader that spent alot of time and money and wound up with very little satifaction in the end.I am reading it right now, and I know Marc has read it. I didn't read your whole post as I didn't want any spoilers.
ALOWERDEEP
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. ... The piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
~ Howard Phillips Lovecraft
ALowerDeep Wrote:Has anyone out there read the last dark tower book? i am sure there are quite a few and wanted to see what some of you thought about how it ended..........
ALOWERDEEP
I read it as well. My original opinion (see, I can spell that word correctly....when I try
) on the book was luke warm. I am only a reader of books, not a writer, but it bothered me on some level concerning Mr. King's appearance in the book. I am unable to say why just yet, other than it just does. I, too, was hoping for a little bit more resolution, but I don't always get what I want (rarely, as it turns out!). In the long run, I have enjoyed the series as a whole and always will.
"There are two motives for reading a book: one, that you enjoy it; the other that you can boast about it."
IMHO - King has always been full of himself... He has made an appearance in every one of his movies!
That said, is there really anything wrong with that? Nah.
But, I have to agree the book left room for improvements. Sort of reminded me of the last episode of Seinfeld... They hyped it up sooo much, that it ended out sucking... Even though, without the hype, it would have been great.
I have been dissapointed with most of the later DT books. My favorite is still the first book and book IV Wizards Glass Thingy.
I dunno, feels like he went WAY to wacky near the end. The first book ROCKS! And, it is the reason, I labored through the next 6. That is saying alot for that first book, considering sequels such as Songs of Susanna!
AAAAHHHHHH!
I agree about Marten... I felt jipped having him killed off in what amounted to seconds after him being the dark nemisis in the first book.
That said, is there really anything wrong with that? Nah.
But, I have to agree the book left room for improvements. Sort of reminded me of the last episode of Seinfeld... They hyped it up sooo much, that it ended out sucking... Even though, without the hype, it would have been great.
I have been dissapointed with most of the later DT books. My favorite is still the first book and book IV Wizards Glass Thingy.
I dunno, feels like he went WAY to wacky near the end. The first book ROCKS! And, it is the reason, I labored through the next 6. That is saying alot for that first book, considering sequels such as Songs of Susanna!
AAAAHHHHHH!
I agree about Marten... I felt jipped having him killed off in what amounted to seconds after him being the dark nemisis in the first book.
Author of "Survivor" - http://www.vaughnripley.com
"Adventure is worthwile in itself."
—Amelia Earhart
I felt that the last one was fine. It ended it okay for me. But if you are going to read this, don't read any other ones because the dark tower VII obliterates any reason to read other SK books.
Contradictions Detected
It does not matter if our answers disagree, as over time the game will change its answers to reflect common knowledge. If you feel that the game is in error, the only way to fix it is to play again.
My only real issues with this last book:
- Eddie is killed so easily
- Mordred being taken out so quickly
You mentioned Marten but that didn't bother me. It showed he was becoming too full of himself and thought he was invincible. To be taken out by Roland's son is unexpected and, in some ways, poetic justice.
How King worked himself into the story was fascinating and worked well. And he didn't just put himself into the book: he's being referencing himself in the series since The Drawing of the Three.
I think there are enough speculations and hints within the series as to what Marten is that we can figure it out for ourselves. I like the fact it isn't spelled out.
Jack Sawyer wasn't an important part of The Dark Tower series... he was important in The Talisman series which either takes place in another part of Roland's world or another dimension (I would go with this speculation because of the Black Hotel reference within The Talisman).
We are left to speculate why the Crimson King wants the tower to fall though there are hints: he was promised to rule all of Discordia once the tower comes down, he wants to know what's at the top just like Roland and Marten, he wants in because Roland wants in. Maybe there is a personal grudge. Remember there are hints the the Crimson King and Roland are brothers. Only the line of Arthur Eld can enter the tower.
The battle between the Crimson King and Roland was a little weak but I felt the final ending made up for it... when Roland enters the tower.
I have to get to work but I will continue with my analysis of DT if you wish at a later time.
- Eddie is killed so easily
- Mordred being taken out so quickly
You mentioned Marten but that didn't bother me. It showed he was becoming too full of himself and thought he was invincible. To be taken out by Roland's son is unexpected and, in some ways, poetic justice.
How King worked himself into the story was fascinating and worked well. And he didn't just put himself into the book: he's being referencing himself in the series since The Drawing of the Three.
I think there are enough speculations and hints within the series as to what Marten is that we can figure it out for ourselves. I like the fact it isn't spelled out.
Jack Sawyer wasn't an important part of The Dark Tower series... he was important in The Talisman series which either takes place in another part of Roland's world or another dimension (I would go with this speculation because of the Black Hotel reference within The Talisman).
We are left to speculate why the Crimson King wants the tower to fall though there are hints: he was promised to rule all of Discordia once the tower comes down, he wants to know what's at the top just like Roland and Marten, he wants in because Roland wants in. Maybe there is a personal grudge. Remember there are hints the the Crimson King and Roland are brothers. Only the line of Arthur Eld can enter the tower.
The battle between the Crimson King and Roland was a little weak but I felt the final ending made up for it... when Roland enters the tower.
I have to get to work but I will continue with my analysis of DT if you wish at a later time.
*********SPOILERS ABOUND BELOW******
*****VENTURE ONWARD AT YOUR OWN PERIL*******
I finished DT7 within days of its release, and had no real problems with it or the series as a whole.
Yes, Martin was vanquished quite easily by Baby Mordred. At the time this happens in the book, I thought there were two reasons for this: the first being that Mordred was one very BAD BABY, the second to show that Flagg was too confident, too cocky, too arrogant, and wasn't nearly the foe he made himself out to be.
Mordred, however, did not turn out to be so BAD, and I think this falls into the same category as his father, the Crimson King. Rarely does the boogie man we all fear turn out to be half as bad as our imaginations carve them out to be. Not knowing what lies beneath the sheet is always more terrifying than turning the sheet back to find nothing but a lumpy pillow...I think that King was trying to emphasize this with both The Crismson King and Mordred, and in all fairness, Mordred actually contributed to his own weakened state by greedily eating the Dandelo's poisoned horse meat, and the Crimson King was completely insane by the time we finally get to see the M.F.
As for King himself being a charachter in the book...BFD! King has always drawn references from the real world (as we all know it) into his fiction. That he should bring in a charachterization of himself was no different than pulling in the Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter, or a half million other things into his work. Its there to pull readers into the fantasy and think that, maybe, just maybe, all this is really happening, albeit on another level of the tower (Do I believe that you ask? Well, no of course not! But do some people? Maybe...Maybe).
I think the novel worked well on several levels, and the ending was fitting, but a little predictable. Eddie's death was a fluke, and shows just how vulnerable humanity is...Life can slip away in the blink of an eye, though Eddie's takes too long in my opionion. And come on, you knew people were going to die. I think Susannah should have been the one to die first, but that's just me.
*****VENTURE ONWARD AT YOUR OWN PERIL*******
I finished DT7 within days of its release, and had no real problems with it or the series as a whole.
Yes, Martin was vanquished quite easily by Baby Mordred. At the time this happens in the book, I thought there were two reasons for this: the first being that Mordred was one very BAD BABY, the second to show that Flagg was too confident, too cocky, too arrogant, and wasn't nearly the foe he made himself out to be.
Mordred, however, did not turn out to be so BAD, and I think this falls into the same category as his father, the Crimson King. Rarely does the boogie man we all fear turn out to be half as bad as our imaginations carve them out to be. Not knowing what lies beneath the sheet is always more terrifying than turning the sheet back to find nothing but a lumpy pillow...I think that King was trying to emphasize this with both The Crismson King and Mordred, and in all fairness, Mordred actually contributed to his own weakened state by greedily eating the Dandelo's poisoned horse meat, and the Crimson King was completely insane by the time we finally get to see the M.F.
As for King himself being a charachter in the book...BFD! King has always drawn references from the real world (as we all know it) into his fiction. That he should bring in a charachterization of himself was no different than pulling in the Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter, or a half million other things into his work. Its there to pull readers into the fantasy and think that, maybe, just maybe, all this is really happening, albeit on another level of the tower (Do I believe that you ask? Well, no of course not! But do some people? Maybe...Maybe).
I think the novel worked well on several levels, and the ending was fitting, but a little predictable. Eddie's death was a fluke, and shows just how vulnerable humanity is...Life can slip away in the blink of an eye, though Eddie's takes too long in my opionion. And come on, you knew people were going to die. I think Susannah should have been the one to die first, but that's just me.
cyber-jack Wrote:Mordred, however, did not turn out to be so BAD, and I think this falls into the same category as his father, the Crimson King. Rarely does the boogie man we all fear turn out to be half as bad as our imaginations carve them out to be. Not knowing what lies beneath the sheet is always more terrifying than turning the sheet back to find nothing but a lumpy pillow...I think that King was trying to emphasize this with both The Crismson King and Mordred, and in all fairness, Mordred actually contributed to his own weakened state by greedily eating the Dandelo's poisoned horse meat, and the Crimson King was completely insane by the time we finally get to see the M.F.
This is a very valid point. If you go back to Wizard and Glass, when the ka-tet enters the Emerald City, what do we have: the Tick-Tock Man who, once again, is easily disposed of. And the Emerald City is, of course, pulled from Wizard of Oz. The wizard there was also a charlatan. A big boomy voice that turned out to be a wimp at the end.
I need your opinion on what flagg is because i sure as hell could not figure it out. Keep in mind that King states that he is not in fact Maerlyn. Now while he may be full of himself that doesnt justify wiping him out in a second. If you remember the whole conflict originated with him. He brought a entire world to its knees in the stand. He nearly brought down a entire kingdom in the eyes of the dragon and you are telling me that he can't survive this little kid that was killed by a billy bumbler and a bullet? C'mon the guy was nuked and still lived. As for for the assumption that roland may in fact be the crimson kings brother i dont buy it for several reasons. One is that the Crimson King was around before roland was born. Two it is stated that he is not human and i believe Roland is. As for his motivations i believe they are shallow and stupid when put in the grand scheme of things. He acts like a damn three year old at least give me a good villain i mean look at rasalom thats a bad dude. As for Jack Sawyer not being important that is simply not true, i mean he did in Kings very own words save the most powerful breaker ever in black house (Tyler the breaker was never mentioned in the last dt book either). That would qualify him as important since he most certainly saved the tower single handedly. I dont know i just expected more revelations after soending so much time with a series. Not everything had to be answered that i ask for but how bout one or two? maybe i ask for too much.....
ALOWERDEEP
ALOWERDEEP
Flagg didn't bring the world to its knees in The Stand... the superflu did. He just took advantage of the weakness of people and rose to power. Yes he did survive a nuclear bomb but then he wasn't from that world. Perhaps he is stronger in some worlds? In any event, he is the embodiment of evil. Perhaps Satan himself.
An interesting question is where does Flagg come from? Roland's world? Ours? That's something never answered. Perhaps he is stronger in some worlds and could survive a nuclear bomb. In another world he's weaker and is eaten by a spider.
As for the Crimson King, I don't remember it being stated that he wasn't human like you mentioned. When is this mentioned? He doesn't have any mystical powers that I remember. And his age? Why couldn't he be Roland's older brother? Time doesn't work in the world any more. Roland has been searching for the tower for over a thousand years.
I stand corrected. Jack Sawyer was important in the fact that he saved the most powerful breaker. But that was his story. In my opinion he didn't need to be in the Dark Tower books.
I agree there were some letdowns with the final book but generally I was very happy with it. The ending was good as was the journey. You cared about characters. King has a tendancy to let his endings fizel out. I don't think he did with this book.
An interesting question is where does Flagg come from? Roland's world? Ours? That's something never answered. Perhaps he is stronger in some worlds and could survive a nuclear bomb. In another world he's weaker and is eaten by a spider.
As for the Crimson King, I don't remember it being stated that he wasn't human like you mentioned. When is this mentioned? He doesn't have any mystical powers that I remember. And his age? Why couldn't he be Roland's older brother? Time doesn't work in the world any more. Roland has been searching for the tower for over a thousand years.
I stand corrected. Jack Sawyer was important in the fact that he saved the most powerful breaker. But that was his story. In my opinion he didn't need to be in the Dark Tower books.
I agree there were some letdowns with the final book but generally I was very happy with it. The ending was good as was the journey. You cared about characters. King has a tendancy to let his endings fizel out. I don't think he did with this book.