[Biggles, I'll bet you all the money in my pocket, and all I'll ever earn, that you won't find a reputable historian to aver the defensive fire from the ships at Pearl Harbor caused the ARIZONA to explode, or the OKLAHOMA to turn turtle, or the CALIFORNIA to sink into the mud. Wager there, partner?

That's not what I said Bluesman. I said friendly fire probably killed more people than anaesthetists that day. Since I don't disagree with what you wrote, I won't take your bet. As far as friendly fire is concerned, any bullet or shell that didn't find an aerial target would have fallen back to "earth" and been a potential threat to our people. That's why you should always stay indoors and away from windows at Midnight on December 31.

Considering how low the Kates were coming in on their runs, I'll bet more deaths were caused by "friendly fire" than anaesthetists, but again, how could it be proven one way or the other?

To say the same thing in different words, you don't shoot down planes with 16 inch guns. You use machine guns and anti-aircraft weapons. With the Japanese planes flying as low as they were -- and in amongst the ships in the harbor -- bullets that missed the planes would surely hit other ships . . . and some of the men on them, i.e., "friendly fire."

Ken V.

To say the same thing in different words, you don't shoot down planes with 16 inch guns. You use machine guns and anti-aircraft weapons. With the Japanese planes flying as low as they were -- and in amongst the ships in the harbor -- bullets that missed the planes would surely hit other ships . . . and some of the men on them, i.e., "friendly fire."

Ken V.

I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I didn't say it better myself.

I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I didn't say it better myself.

Most of the time you have to spell it out for me.

This time I spelled it out for somebody else . . . REFRESHING!

Ken V.

Gotcha, Biggs. I've recently read that David Palmer, keyboard player on many a Tull album, has had a sex change. Ian said the obligatory things, i.e., "Well, it's strange to think of a big, pipe-smoking, happy-to-brawl man's man like Dave taking this step, but I support him in his decision." And I thought, "Damn...Palmer got a big pair to brave the nip of the cullion guillotine like that. Wait a minute...something's wrong with that thought..."

Gotcha, Biggs. I've recently read that David Palmer, keyboard player on many a Tull album, has had a sex change. Ian said the obligatory things, i.e., "Well, it's strange to think of a big, pipe-smoking, happy-to-brawl man's man like Dave taking this step, but I support him in his decision." And I thought, "Damn...Palmer got a big pair to brave the nip of the cullion guillotine like that. Wait a minute...something's wrong with that thought..."

I'm devastated. The only way I would be more so is if Ian or Martin had had it done. You're not yankin' my chain are you? Wait a minute; that was a poor choice of words under the circumstance.

[No joke, Biggles! I'm sure you can find all the details online. God...it's pretty well agreed these days that gay folks--more power to 'em, God bless 'em--are born gay. But a sex change...how unhappy you must be to negate your primary identity... But good luck to Dave (now "Denna" IIRC)...

[Of course you don't use 16" guns to shoot down aircraft. Yet I seem to recall reading that the Japanese had developed huge flechette shellls for the Yamato and Musashi, to use their 18.1 inch cannon as anti-aircraft weapons in desperate extremity. Captain Tamichi Hara's JAPANESE DESTROYER CAPTAIN, maybe? (Captain Hara, commanding a light cruiser, accompanied YAMATO on her last sortie.) There have been a couple of books on the mighty, but fatally-flawed, YAMATO-class behemoths published in English.

[Of course you don't use 16" guns to shoot down aircraft. Yet I seem to recall reading that the Japanese had developed huge flechette shellls for the Yamato and Musashi, to use their 18.1 inch cannon as anti-aircraft weapons in desperate extremity. Captain Tamichi Hara's JAPANESE DESTROYER CAPTAIN, maybe? (Captain Hara, commanding a light cruiser, accompanied YAMATO on her last sortie.) There have been a couple of books on the mighty, but fatally-flawed, YAMATO-class behemoths published in English.

Considering how much ordnance it took to sink Yamato and Musashi, I don't agree that they were fatally flawed. Aircraft can always sink battleships that lack effective air cover and support ships. Also, as we proved with our Iowa class, the big gun battleships can be adapted to modern conditions. Of course, Yamato and Musashi didn't survive to find out. If they had survived the war, we could sure have used them off the coast of Korea five years later!

Considering how much ordnance it took to sink Yamato and Musashi, I don't agree that they were fatally flawed. Aircraft can always sink battleships that lack effective air cover and support ships. Also, as we proved with our Iowa class, the big gun battleships can be adapted to modern conditions. Of course, Yamato and Musashi didn't survive to find out. If they had survived the war, we could sure have used them off the coast of Korea five years later!

Here's a quote for you Biggles.

Newton D. Baker, U. S. Secretary for War, 1921, on Billy Mitchell's proposal to demonstrate the coming importance of air power by sinking a battleship:

"The idea is so damned nonsensical and impossible that I'm willing to stand on the bridge of a battleship while that nitwit tries to hit it from the air."

Should that go under the catagory of "Famous last words?" Or, "People who should know better?"

Ken V.