I recently asked a few boomers IRL how X-Men: First Class would've gone over if played at cinemas during the Cold War (say by mischievous or curious time travelers). Special effects aside, I'd think it would subvert Cold War propaganda in that both the US and USSR are seen a more realistic, morally ambiguous people driven by ideology and fear rather than pure evil or as brainwashed servants of the state, and ultimately both were facing common enemies, and then both allied together making them both bad guys (though even then they weren't portrayed as evil). While neither country was portrayed as the "evil empire" neither was portrayed in such a way as to be seen as unquestionably wise & just (thus making their authority questionable), either. I was curious how much it would screw with people's heads back then, and if it would've inspired an ideological moral panic.
Unfortunately, almost no one I asked (who'd be old enough to say) saw the movie, but of the very few who did had very different views (much to my surprise), and I thought I'd sum it up and offer it here for others to add their insights and opinions. My question was how would it go in 1969 (after the Hayes code was pretty much over) and also 1960 before the Cuban missile crisis, though it ended up going into how it would be perceived in the 80s as well. Summed up:
1960: One claimed all hell would break loose in a time that even MAD magazine got visited by the Feds for mocking the government and even It's a Wonderful Life came under FBI scrutiny for having the villain being such a wealthy individual (and thus promoting Communist propaganda instead of Capitalist propaganda). Also, it's possible that Jupiter missiles in Turkey weren't public knowledge at the time as even JFK didn't know about it until advised during the Cuban missile crisis (and Charles is accused of being a spy in the movie after he asks about them).
OTOH, Dr. No came out in 1962 and showed plenty of skin and fairly competent women. Also, Hugh Hefner's Playboy Clubs and the Playboy Mansion was a popular icon in the 60s and James Bond is shown as having some kind of card or key for it in I think Diamonds are Forever. Thus the film may not have provoked a moral panic (at least on non ideological grounds) and been popular, and just may have been seen as a popcorn flick with epic special effects.
1969: Everyone agreed that in the political turmoil of the time that this would've generated A LOT of hand wringing and screaming over this film and it would even be labelled as outright Satanic, but would also be a blockbuster hit that catapulted all the stars into international fame (this was the ONLY thing everyone I asked agreed upon).
In addition to subverting Cold War propaganda, it showed women being in control of their sexuality (and controlling men through it) as well as having brains and competence (while the male audience could still appreciate the skin showed), and it would also tap the racial turmoil of the difference between MLK Jr. (Xavier) and Malcolm X (Magneto), which would help make this film a huge hit while at the same time scaring the crap out of plenty of others for the same reason. In short, the movie would likely generate intense discussion & debate from the Cold War to race relations and feminism (all huge topics of the day challenging the status quo), which is why it would be intensely huge but at the same time reviled (especially by TPTB). And by this time, not only was the Hayes code over with, but Star Trek was (much more subtly) questioning the social order on TV (including with the character Chekov) and James Bond movies sometimes had a similar feel.
1980s: One said the Cold War was losing steam and she cited many movies (such as War Games to The Day After and even some James Bond movies), and popular songs (like Sting's Russians) that were saying both sides needed to take a chill pill and relax. Russia seemed a little less evil and kids in American schools started questioning Cold War propaganda (I previously heard how American schools started to phase out the teaching of critical thinking skills in the early 80s, which a few believe was Reagan trying to stem kids from looking at American propaganda with the same critical eye as toward Russian propaganda, too). So she thinks it would've just been seen as another over the top popcorn flick (with epic special effects of course).
But a guy said the Cold War was still going strong even in the 80s and cited Ronald Reagan's "bear in the woods" ad, and all too many hit movies capitalized on it, such as the Rambo and Missing in Action films, Rocky IV, Red Dawn, and a bunch of others I can't recall. So it was still a big deal (either that or guys just liked seeing bad guys blown up and blown away and Commies were convenient bad guys at the time), and even though The Terminator had a similar spiel of an unknown enemy exploiting the Cold War to crush the world and its social order to take over, the movie never humanized the Soviets as the X-Men movie did. So he believes that even in the 80s it would generate an ideological moral panic, or at least screw with how people were used to thinking. (He also claimed that when he saw Terminator 2: Judgement Day in 1991 that he felt shocked over the line of the Russians being "our friends now" as it was almost too much to take in.)
Because I got such strong disagreement I thought I'd put the question out on this board and see if anyone else wanted to add their own thoughts on the matter. (And before anyone asks, I was born in October of 1982. And growing up a girl my exposure to the war games was very limited, though I do recall pretending to shoot at Russian invaders while playing with the neighborhood boys once or twice.) Thanks.
Unfortunately, almost no one I asked (who'd be old enough to say) saw the movie, but of the very few who did had very different views (much to my surprise), and I thought I'd sum it up and offer it here for others to add their insights and opinions. My question was how would it go in 1969 (after the Hayes code was pretty much over) and also 1960 before the Cuban missile crisis, though it ended up going into how it would be perceived in the 80s as well. Summed up:
1960: One claimed all hell would break loose in a time that even MAD magazine got visited by the Feds for mocking the government and even It's a Wonderful Life came under FBI scrutiny for having the villain being such a wealthy individual (and thus promoting Communist propaganda instead of Capitalist propaganda). Also, it's possible that Jupiter missiles in Turkey weren't public knowledge at the time as even JFK didn't know about it until advised during the Cuban missile crisis (and Charles is accused of being a spy in the movie after he asks about them).
OTOH, Dr. No came out in 1962 and showed plenty of skin and fairly competent women. Also, Hugh Hefner's Playboy Clubs and the Playboy Mansion was a popular icon in the 60s and James Bond is shown as having some kind of card or key for it in I think Diamonds are Forever. Thus the film may not have provoked a moral panic (at least on non ideological grounds) and been popular, and just may have been seen as a popcorn flick with epic special effects.
1969: Everyone agreed that in the political turmoil of the time that this would've generated A LOT of hand wringing and screaming over this film and it would even be labelled as outright Satanic, but would also be a blockbuster hit that catapulted all the stars into international fame (this was the ONLY thing everyone I asked agreed upon).
In addition to subverting Cold War propaganda, it showed women being in control of their sexuality (and controlling men through it) as well as having brains and competence (while the male audience could still appreciate the skin showed), and it would also tap the racial turmoil of the difference between MLK Jr. (Xavier) and Malcolm X (Magneto), which would help make this film a huge hit while at the same time scaring the crap out of plenty of others for the same reason. In short, the movie would likely generate intense discussion & debate from the Cold War to race relations and feminism (all huge topics of the day challenging the status quo), which is why it would be intensely huge but at the same time reviled (especially by TPTB). And by this time, not only was the Hayes code over with, but Star Trek was (much more subtly) questioning the social order on TV (including with the character Chekov) and James Bond movies sometimes had a similar feel.
1980s: One said the Cold War was losing steam and she cited many movies (such as War Games to The Day After and even some James Bond movies), and popular songs (like Sting's Russians) that were saying both sides needed to take a chill pill and relax. Russia seemed a little less evil and kids in American schools started questioning Cold War propaganda (I previously heard how American schools started to phase out the teaching of critical thinking skills in the early 80s, which a few believe was Reagan trying to stem kids from looking at American propaganda with the same critical eye as toward Russian propaganda, too). So she thinks it would've just been seen as another over the top popcorn flick (with epic special effects of course).
But a guy said the Cold War was still going strong even in the 80s and cited Ronald Reagan's "bear in the woods" ad, and all too many hit movies capitalized on it, such as the Rambo and Missing in Action films, Rocky IV, Red Dawn, and a bunch of others I can't recall. So it was still a big deal (either that or guys just liked seeing bad guys blown up and blown away and Commies were convenient bad guys at the time), and even though The Terminator had a similar spiel of an unknown enemy exploiting the Cold War to crush the world and its social order to take over, the movie never humanized the Soviets as the X-Men movie did. So he believes that even in the 80s it would generate an ideological moral panic, or at least screw with how people were used to thinking. (He also claimed that when he saw Terminator 2: Judgement Day in 1991 that he felt shocked over the line of the Russians being "our friends now" as it was almost too much to take in.)
Because I got such strong disagreement I thought I'd put the question out on this board and see if anyone else wanted to add their own thoughts on the matter. (And before anyone asks, I was born in October of 1982. And growing up a girl my exposure to the war games was very limited, though I do recall pretending to shoot at Russian invaders while playing with the neighborhood boys once or twice.) Thanks.
Dervish Wrote:(And before anyone asks, I was born in October of 1982. And growing up a girl my exposure to the war games was very limited, though I do recall pretending to shoot at Russian invaders while playing with the neighborhood boys once or twice.)
Was the game called Red Dawn?
Alvin Fox Wrote:Was the game called Red Dawn?
If it was called anything it was "the Russians are coming." I didn't mind the game, though I got acutely uncomfortable when the boys took cover and pretended to shoot at passing vehicles ("tanks") and I refused to do that myself.
And I've never seen the movie Red Dawn, btw.
Dervish Wrote:If it was called anything it was "the Russians are coming." I didn't mind the game, though I got acutely uncomfortable when the boys took cover and pretended to shoot at passing vehicles ("tanks") and I refused to do that myself.
And I've never seen the movie Red Dawn, btw.
Do yourself a favor and rent Red Dawn.....I don't think you'll be sorry.
EWMAN
Wow, pretty nifty question. I’ll offer my two cents worth. I was born in 1980, so I don’t have the first hand experience of the ‘60s but I do of the Cold War in the 80’s, at least a little bit.
1960-I’d have to agree with the person who claimed this would be seen as inflammatory. Although this would take place after what many would consider the height of the “red scare”, I think that is a bit misleading. The populace seems to hold on to certain things even if the media lets it go. I remember when I was a kid; you still had people of older generations say things like “that sounds like Communist talk” or “are you a red or something?” This would have been roughly 30 years from what was considered the height of the “red scare”, so I would imagine that a mere 4-5 years down the line, most people would have still been stuck in the anti-Communist mindset. Of course certain people would accept it for what it was and try to explain it to others brainwashed by the propaganda, but the second “red scare” was already seen as somewhat anti-intellectual, this I think would fall prey to that as well.
Investigations into Hollywood were nothing new at this point; the blacklist had already taken effect. If a movie like this came out, where not only were the Soviets not shown as the bad guys, but the US was shown as something other than the good guys? I would imagine the producers and actors and whoever else involved would be meeting with J.Edgar’s G-men.
1969-I’d agree with what seems to be the consensus you found, that amid all the turmoil this might actually carry a significant weight in society at the time. I think with the multitude of events that transpired this year and the few years prior and the few next to come, people had become a bit more open minded by this point. America wasn’t the be all, end all that it had been. This wasn’t the 50’s anymore where most people were content to live in the American bubble. From the music to the movies to politics to international events, I think people began to realize that America was but a part of a whole and not the other way around.
1980-I’d agree and disagree about the Cold War losing steam. Yes, technically it was, and had we a crystal ball we could have seen just how close the end was, how hollow the Soviet Union had become. Yet, just as when a deadline draws near, one scrambles frantically and works perhaps more efficiently than one has before because time is running out, the threat of the Soviets was the same way. The end was near for them, why not go out with a bang, after all what has all this been about if they weren’t going to act on anything.
I remember we had bomb drills all the time, the siren would ring and we’d duck and cover. You mentioned that someone had mentioned the film, The Day After. Nicholas Meyer, the director (also of Star Trek II), was accused of being a traitor, that he and by extension I’d imagine ABC, were trying to argue for disarmament.
I think this movie would probably be popular, as movies depicting ambiguity back then were with a certain segment of the population. However, I don’t think it would generate any sort of social phenomenon. I think at this point, with an ever present threat of nuclear Armageddon a comic book movie would be seen as trite. The reason many remember The Day After and that it had such an effect was because of its realistic depiction of what nuclear war would do to the average American and by extension the average Soviet.
1960-I’d have to agree with the person who claimed this would be seen as inflammatory. Although this would take place after what many would consider the height of the “red scare”, I think that is a bit misleading. The populace seems to hold on to certain things even if the media lets it go. I remember when I was a kid; you still had people of older generations say things like “that sounds like Communist talk” or “are you a red or something?” This would have been roughly 30 years from what was considered the height of the “red scare”, so I would imagine that a mere 4-5 years down the line, most people would have still been stuck in the anti-Communist mindset. Of course certain people would accept it for what it was and try to explain it to others brainwashed by the propaganda, but the second “red scare” was already seen as somewhat anti-intellectual, this I think would fall prey to that as well.
Investigations into Hollywood were nothing new at this point; the blacklist had already taken effect. If a movie like this came out, where not only were the Soviets not shown as the bad guys, but the US was shown as something other than the good guys? I would imagine the producers and actors and whoever else involved would be meeting with J.Edgar’s G-men.
1969-I’d agree with what seems to be the consensus you found, that amid all the turmoil this might actually carry a significant weight in society at the time. I think with the multitude of events that transpired this year and the few years prior and the few next to come, people had become a bit more open minded by this point. America wasn’t the be all, end all that it had been. This wasn’t the 50’s anymore where most people were content to live in the American bubble. From the music to the movies to politics to international events, I think people began to realize that America was but a part of a whole and not the other way around.
1980-I’d agree and disagree about the Cold War losing steam. Yes, technically it was, and had we a crystal ball we could have seen just how close the end was, how hollow the Soviet Union had become. Yet, just as when a deadline draws near, one scrambles frantically and works perhaps more efficiently than one has before because time is running out, the threat of the Soviets was the same way. The end was near for them, why not go out with a bang, after all what has all this been about if they weren’t going to act on anything.
I remember we had bomb drills all the time, the siren would ring and we’d duck and cover. You mentioned that someone had mentioned the film, The Day After. Nicholas Meyer, the director (also of Star Trek II), was accused of being a traitor, that he and by extension I’d imagine ABC, were trying to argue for disarmament.
I think this movie would probably be popular, as movies depicting ambiguity back then were with a certain segment of the population. However, I don’t think it would generate any sort of social phenomenon. I think at this point, with an ever present threat of nuclear Armageddon a comic book movie would be seen as trite. The reason many remember The Day After and that it had such an effect was because of its realistic depiction of what nuclear war would do to the average American and by extension the average Soviet.
This post was last modified: 12-30-2011, 02:21 PM by PicardRex.
The Cold War was still in full force in the early 80's. Russians were still the bad guys of choice (among others). Rocky IV, The Day After, Red Dawn, The Greatest American Hero...
I don't recall my school ever having drills, but I remember the Red scare very well and the threat of a full-scale nuclear exchange. How close were we?
I don't recall my school ever having drills, but I remember the Red scare very well and the threat of a full-scale nuclear exchange. How close were we?
“I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.”
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I don't remember any Red Scare stuff, but then again, I don't remember much beyond the Challenger blowing up and all the bad Christa MacAuliffe jokes. Then again, I went to school in the hood. We got everything late.
They passed an old woman who was just opening the door of a brown Cadillac. An old man was already sitting in the passenger seat. The car had a personalized plate with the letters “J-U-S-P-R-A-Y”.
“That stuff work?” Israel said to her.
“‘Scuse me?” the little old woman said, clutching her keys.
“The spray. Does it keep them away?”
“Keep who away?” She looked confused.
“I gotcha.” Israel gave her a conspiratorial wink.
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cobalt Wrote:Do yourself a favor and rent Red Dawn.....I don't think you'll be sorry.
Really? I was watching it when I was in Huntsville and had to turn it off since the acting was so horrible and the "war" so unrealistic. It definitely does not stand the test of time.
Major K
"He guards the sleep of his pauper master as if he were a Prince." George Graham Vest
"We are alone, absolutely alone on this chance planet: and, amid all the forms of life that surround us, not one, excepting the dog, has made an alliance with us." - Maurice Maeterlinck
Sigokat Wrote:
Really? I was watching it when I was in Huntsville and had to turn it off since the acting was so horrible and the "war" so unrealistic. It definitely does not stand the test of time.
Yes, really. It's to answer Dervish's question about cold war mis-thinking.
EWMAN
cobalt Wrote:Yes, really. It's to answer Dervish's question about cold war mis-thinking.
yes, I know, I read that, obviously. I was just saying that Red Dawn, IMHO, is not a very good movie and does not stand the test of time. It's actually pretty lame I think.
Major K
"He guards the sleep of his pauper master as if he were a Prince." George Graham Vest
"We are alone, absolutely alone on this chance planet: and, amid all the forms of life that surround us, not one, excepting the dog, has made an alliance with us." - Maurice Maeterlinck