I think when you have things happening in a movie that involves something you know a lot about . . . if it's not done very accurately it's very annoying. For example, in Independence Day . . . Ok, it was easy to accept the aliens, blah blah blah but when Jeff Goldblum uploads a virus to the mothership via his laptop and a "USB to UFO" cable . . . I mean come on. Well maybe it was a serial cable to UFO cable instead but still . . . I think this would be the equivalent of how Ken V. feels when he's watching a western and they're using a rifle from the wrong decade.

I'm guessing Webby's concerns are somewhere along those lines. Maybe not.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm worried about.

Oh .... I had a bad cringe moment reading the new Crichton book when a character makes up a bunch of web sites about a bogus genetic disorder (in about two hours time), publishes them to the web and they are available as links in Google that same afternoon! Arrrgghh! If only it was that easy!

BTW, I'm sure Ken V. has cringed many times watching not just westerns but almost any modern action movie. My hubby is the same way with guns and it's sometimes pretty hard for him to watch those flicks.

I think when you have things happening in a movie that involves something you know a lot about . . . if it's not done very accurately it's very annoying. For example, in Independence Day . . . Ok, it was easy to accept the aliens, blah blah blah but when Jeff Goldblum uploads a virus to the mothership via his laptop and a "USB to UFO" cable . . . I mean come on. Well maybe it was a serial cable to UFO cable instead but still . . . I think this would be the equivalent of how Ken V. feels when he's watching a western and they're using a rifle from the wrong decade.

I'm guessing Webby's concerns are somewhere along those lines. Maybe not.

Take yer point, Dave. And nobody could dispute Ken V.'s gunny expertise, but has he pointed out a weaponry error so gross? People get paid big bucks to make things seem accurate! Or were you speaking metaphorically?

...People get paid big bucks to make things seem accurate! ...

I know you're right that somebody gets paid for that, but in that case there must be a lot of directors, producers, whoevers that overrule the accuracy checkers. As just one example, how many minor fender-benders result in HUGE EXPLOSIONS there in NYC? Hardly ANY do here in the Midwest!

I know you're right that somebody gets paid for that, but in that case there must be a lot of directors, producers, whoevers that overrule the accuracy checkers. As just one example, how many minor fender-benders result in HUGE EXPLOSIONS there in NYC? Hardly ANY do here in the Midwest!

Here in the Big Town, we look at a car hard, it explodes. It's part of Mayor Bloomberg's plan to reduce traffic in Midtown.

... nobody could dispute Ken V.'s gunny expertise, but has he pointed out a weaponry error so gross? People get paid big bucks to make things seem accurate! Or were you speaking metaphorically?

Ken Valentine has been specific in pointing out gunny errors or issues in films many times. Here's just one example regarding the film "Open Range:"

Originally, the prairie was open to anyone who wanted to graze their cattle. Later, people came in and closed the range with barbed wire fences.

Open Range versus Closed Range.

"Open" is more accurate, but "Wild" will probably sell more tickets.

It's perhaps the best -- and most historically accurate -- Western I have ever seen.

The only flaw I noticed was when Kevin Costner fired nine shots from his six-shooter.

Great movie!

Ken V.

P.S. The popularity of Cowboy Action shooting competition in the U.S. has made it possible for movie producers to easily find reproductions of correct period firearms. (Clothing as well.)

Charlie Waite, (Kevin Costner) fired a Colt model 1873 pistol and a Winchester model 1873 rifle.

Boss Spearman (Robert Duval) carried a Remington model 1875 pistol, a Winchester 1873 rifle, and a mule-ear shotgun of undetermined make.

Percy (Michael Jeeter) Used a Winchester model 1866 "Yellow Boy" rifle.

Contrast this with the John Wayne movie, THE COMMANCHERO'S, which takes place in 1848. Wayne's pistol was first produced in 1873, his rifle in 1892, and he was "trading" Winchester model 1894 rifles made to look like 1860 Henry's.

I hope westerns are making a come-back . . . especially if they are as accurate as Open Range.

Ken Valentine has been specific in pointing out gunny errors or issues in films many times. Here's just one example regarding the film "Open Range:"

Yeah, I recall Ken posting that, Maggers. Not much gunny detail gets by Ken! Thanks for the reminder.

Yeah, I recall Ken posting that, Maggers. Not much gunny detail gets by Ken! Thanks for the reminder.

Also see Ken V's current post on the "Casino Royale" thread. He goes into gun detail there, too.

Take yer point, Dave. And nobody could dispute Ken V.'s gunny expertise, but has he pointed out a weaponry error so gross? People get paid big bucks to make things seem accurate! Or were you speaking metaphorically?

To me what is annoying is that alot of movies and TV Shows (X-Files is the worst) don't bother to use or listen to their miltary consultants. Yeah yeah yeah, there's that rule that a uniform cannot be EXACT, unless the actor is prior service never seen this in writing though), but sometimes it's like COME ON!!! Recently I saw in a magazine a head and shoulders shot of some guy in an upcoming war movie about Iraq. The guy was in his class A's (He was a Specialist)...No insignia on his beret, beret worn incorrectly, his rank on his shirt collar was UPSIDE DOWN...no name tape...etc etc etc...it was sick to look at. One of the BEST examples of a military uniform worn by a non-prior service actor was George Clooney's character in The Peacemaker...I couldn't find one thing wrong with it.

Ok that's just my two Lincolns.

I know you're right that somebody gets paid for that, but in that case there must be a lot of directors, producers, whoevers that overrule the accuracy checkers. As just one example, how many minor fender-benders result in HUGE EXPLOSIONS there in NYC? Hardly ANY do here in the Midwest!

That is so true Webby. They have their consultants . . . but do they listen to them? One good example was the movie Windtalkers. The production had a Marine Corps General (I think) on hand to keep things accurate, but somehow it didn't seem to work. The only accurate thing I remember from the movie was that they used a Webcor wire recorder in one scene where they were training the radio men. The rest was fantastically unlikely. Like one of the Marines having to breathe into a paper bag when he got excited.

Even if he was excepted into the Marines, he would never have made it through boot camp. The Marines at that time rejected potential recruits who had bad teeth . . . not to mention hyperventilating. And the scenes where the Marines were in the village on Saipan.

Saipan had been a Japanese Island for many years, and the Japanese living there had been told stories of Americans killing and eating their enemies. They were indoctrinated to the point where they killed themselves and their children rather than let themselves be captured by Americans.

My high school chemistry teacher had been in the Navy at Saipan, and he told of the harbor there being choked with the bodies of Japanese civilians who had killed themselves rather than being taken alive.

Too many other thngs as well.

Ken V.

P.S. Someday, I plan on taking metal cans of gasoline to the range and shooting them. I have long suspected that (full or partially full) cans of gas will not burn when hit by bullets. A soft-point rifle bullet will definitely cause a can of liquid to explode, but will it cause it to burn? A full metal jacketed bullet will go right through a can of liquid leaving just as small a hole going out as it did going in. At least it does when shooting at unopened soup cans. A soft-point rifle bullet shot at an unopened soup can will cause the can to explode . . . but will it set a volatile liquid on fire? Somehow I think it won't.

That is so true Webby. They have their consultants . . . but do they listen to them? One good example was the movie Windtalkers. The production had a Marine Corps General (I think) on hand to keep things accurate, but somehow it didn't seem to work. The only accurate thing I remember from the movie was that they used a Webcor wire recorder in one scene where they were training the radio men. The rest was fantastically unlikely. Like one of the Marines having to breathe into a paper bag when he got excited.

Even if he was excepted into the Marines, he would never have made it through boot camp. The Marines at that time rejected potential recruits who had bad teeth . . . not to mention hyperventilating. And the scenes where the Marines were in the village on Saipan.

Saipan had been a Japanese Island for many years, and the Japanese living there had been told stories of Americans killing and eating their enemies. They were indoctrinated to the point where they killed themselves and their children rather than let themselves be captured by Americans.

My high school chemistry teacher had been in the Navy at Saipan, and he told of the harbor there being choked with the bodies of Japanese civilians who had killed themselves rather than being taken alive.

Too many other thngs as well.

Ken V.

P.S. Someday, I plan on taking metal cans of gasoline to the range and shooting them. I have long suspected that (full or partially full) cans of gas will not burn when hit by bullets. A soft-point rifle bullet will definitely cause a can of liquid to explode, but will it cause it to burn? A full metal jacketed bullet will go right through a can of liquid leaving just as small a hole going out as it did going in. At least it does when shooting at unopened soup cans. A soft-point rifle bullet shot at an unopened soup can will cause the can to explode . . . but will it set a volatile liquid on fire? Somehow I think it won't.

I always thought that it was dependent on the fumes. My grandpa said he used to light a cigarette and then throw the match into a bucket of gasoline. The match would only extinguish, no flame, no explosion. I assumed it was a well ventilated area, so there were no fumes hovering.