Thanks dawg, beteween you and Saynomore, I will catch this movie. (You guys are convincing) I was just curious if the guy that came forward and said he shot it down was in it, or if it only backed up the "official" story which was a call to arms.


KRW

I would say the official story but it doesn't preclude anything else. The last shot of the movie is the plane heading to the ground. It doesn't show if they were shot down on the way, etc. It just shows the cockpit being rushed and the terrorists trying to fight them off and then the surviving terrorists putting the nose to the ground.

Whether it was shot down or not, my hat is off to those who stood up and tried to live by fighting back.

I would say the official story but it doesn't preclude anything else. The last shot of the movie is the plane heading to the ground. It doesn't show if they were shot down on the way, etc. It just shows the cockpit being rushed and the terrorists trying to fight them off and then the surviving terrorists putting the nose to the ground.

Whether it was shot down or not, my hat is off to those who stood up and tried to live by fighting back.

We always agree there, thanks for the thumbs up on the movie!

KRW

Let's start at the beginning of this thread and look at how it degenerated into a schoolyard taunt fest.

It started simply with, "hey, check this movie out." And from there, I began with the pseudo-politics by stating that I don't believe that this movie is too soon in the making, but too late as the victims of that flight were not recognized and overshadowed in the immediate aftermath by Todd Beamer's widow and his catch phrase. Shortly thereafter, someone agreed that exploitation of this event for money is a questionable act, that if true, is sickening. YOU then went on to make your first of many broad, sweeping judgements by stating that movies with liberal agenda (Brokeback Mountain) are heaped with praise, and that a "movie with a patriotic message" gets immediately ripped apart by liberals that love gay cowboys eatin' puddin'.

So far, nothing I have seen in the liberal-influenced mass media contradicts this assessment. The "eatin' puddin' " was a great catchphrase for the Brokeback Mountain thread, but I can't claim credit.

Prior to you stating that United 93 has a patriotic message, someone else posted that United 93 does NOT have a patriotic message, but is clearly a film depicting as they actually happened on the ground, and likely happened in the air.

To me, anyone who stands up against terrorism is a patriot. Anyone who refuses to die on their knees is a hero. Anyone who sacrifices themselves for the greater good is a saint. Any liberals fitting any of these three categories are no exception; I just feel it is less likely, but am overjoyed at the prospect of being proven wrong. Hissy fits at my opinion, however, do not suffice.

Then, the point at which this thread degenerated... your blind assumption (based on personal observation, no less) that no liberals stormed the cockpit. That, quite frankly, pissed several people off, including me. I find that rhetoric like that, denigrating the victims of United 93, is highly offensive, way off the mark, extremely untrue, and blindly ignorant by anyone. I feel that ripping on people that make their living insulting half the country (like Rush Limbaugh) is fair game, as they get paid huge sums of money to belittle people. But, when you make ignorant and insulting comments about people that died being heroes all in the name of picking a fight or trolling for an argument, that is pretty sad.

I did not and would not denigrate the martyrs of Flight 93 and I do not see how my words can possible be twisted to that extent, but, then again, your own twisted perceptions have so warped your world view that you may truly believe that I did. It is true that I do carry a great deal of contempt and disdain for the liberal mindset. But, no conservative ever questioned what America did to deserve the 9/11 attacks. No conservative ever suggested that the victims in the WTC "were a bunch of little Eichmans" that deserved what they got. No conservative ever blames America first when events like this occur. This does not necessarily include you or anyone else on this board. However, if you are going to lump me with Rush Limbaugh, then join your confreres over on the left, as I've just described them.

You have an extreme tendency to read these threads and only understand what you wish to: we are all liberals out to trash your way of life and none are worthy to be in your presence because of your great intellect and keen eye of 'personal observation.'

See above. But, since someone I respect tells me there are liberals fighting terrorism right alongside him, I have to change my opinion. But, that's my opinion about THEM! It's YOUR way of life too. It's what supports your right to express your numbskull opinions.

As far as name calling? I only intimated that you might work at Wal-Mart and not some super-secret, hush-hush, classified organization tasked with protecting all that is good in this country. As far as being anti-Catholic? Re-read my post. I never stated anything about Catholics being bad, or Catholicism being evil. I only suggested that there are ignorant people in the world that wish to protect people from themselves and don't believe in freedom of thought. Think about it for a minute.... protecting condoms from Catholics.... what does that truly mean? There are some Catholics in this world who wish to use birth control in opposition to the doctrine of the Vatican and there are people in the world who think they are tasked with making sure that those free-thinking Catholics must obey the church. I was not insulting Catholics... I was insulting you and your kind that believe that us free-thinkers (read by you: us liberals) cannot have a legitimate belief as they are contrary to what you believe. We free-thinkers want to have the right to buy condoms AND believe in the Catholic doctrine (though, I personally don't believe in the Catholic doctrine). To paraphrase, we free-thinkers believe that we can have our cake AND eat it, too, and that there are people out there, such as yourself, who believe that we free-thinkers aren't good enough to have cake OR eat it if we did.

If only liberals WERE freethinkers! We have already heard from those freethinkers who refuse to view Flight 93 because its message might run contrary to their preconcieved views. I have a devout Catolic coworker who is against any form of abortion for any reason. He even objects to IUDs! And, don't EVER ask him about gay marriage (as far as I'm concerned, gays have the right to be as miserable as straights are! ). So I never touch on these subjects with him (because I disagree on these points and others), just as I never discuss politics with my liberal coworker (you remember, the one who would not even read the timetraveler, War Against Islam short story, the one all the liberals on this site leaped to defend, blame me, and denied his closemindedness?). As far as your intimation about my working at Wal-Mart? That was amusing (see my NCTC post). But, frankly, before the day ever comes when my self-image and feeling of self-worth is dependent on your opinion, I hope I eat my gun!

But, I'm sure you'll find a way to have the last word on this matter, likely by doing your best three-year old impression and screaming at the top of your lungs until Mommy or Daddy stuffs the ice cream cone you want so badly down your throat.

You are not in any position where you can imagine accusing someone else of a lack of maturity. You feel that because you hold your views passionately that this somehow lends credence to them. That works as well as saying that because you can yell louder than your opponent that means you win the argument.

You are not in any position where you can imagine accusing someone else of a lack of maturity. You feel that because you hold your views passionately that this somehow lends credence to them. That works as well as saying that because you can yell louder than your opponent that means you win the argument.

Actually, I know I am in a position to speak to a lack of maturity on this thread and others. I admit that I lapse occasionally, but I feel that I do my very best to censor the majority of my own comments so as to not offend any individual on this board whom I respect. And, I start off respecting each person fully, until they do something to lose that respect.
I will further admit that I read your comments from your last post and nodded my head along the way. I thought that you made some valid points and, while not directly addressing some of the shortcomings of your previous posts, added some clarity to your worldview.

However, the last statement, which is quoted above, really defines your character. This statement applies to you much more so than me or any of the more politically-minded board members. Re-read your posts and count the number of times where you threw out a direct insult or personal attack. And, then look at how many times I responded with a direct insult or personal attack.

I also believe you to hold your beliefs so passionately that, right or wrong, you will hold them to the death. But, is that a good thing? Sometimes, but in a "respectable" discussion, it's not. Open YOUR mind and truly listen to what people have to say. It seems that if there is a disagreement with your worldview, then the gloves come off, the mind clamps shut and the logic flies out the window.

And, lastly, yelling loudest only wins when in a yelling contest. There are no winners when neither side is willing to learn from the other. So, in the interest of allowing you a small victory, learn one thing about me: I am by no means a pinko-tree hugging-liberal loving Democrat. I agree with some of the Democratic ideals, but also agree with many of the Republican ideals. I consider myself to be an individual among the political landscape of classification. And, I'm willing to bet that with a deep breath, a long pull from a beer and a promise to restrain from verbal and physical attacks, you could have a very heated, but mutually educational discussion with anyone.

I would say the official story but it doesn't preclude anything else. The last shot of the movie is the plane heading to the ground. It doesn't show if they were shot down on the way, etc. It just shows the cockpit being rushed and the terrorists trying to fight them off and then the surviving terrorists putting the nose to the ground.

Whether it was shot down or not, my hat is off to those who stood up and tried to live by fighting back.

Dawg, this might have been addressed in the thread, but I don't want to reread the whole thing (life is short, y'know?), but has anyone presented =any= credible evidence United 93 was shot down? Given the utter confusion and disbelief at every level on the day of The Attack?

Dawg, this might have been addressed in the thread, but I don't want to reread the whole thing (life is short, y'know?), but has anyone presented =any= credible evidence United 93 was shot down? Given the utter confusion and disbelief at every level on the day of The Attack?

Not in my mind, but one man's facts are another man's garbage....

I state that, in the final analysis, it really doesn't matter. They did fight back and that's all that matter to me. Whether or not it was successful, whether they were shot down in the confusion of the moment, is irrelevent.

But that's just me.

Not in my mind, but one man's facts are another man's garbage....

I state that, in the final analysis, it really doesn't matter. They did fight back and that's all that matter to me. Whether or not it was successful, whether they were shot down in the confusion of the moment, is irrelevent.

But that's just me.

That's because you refuse to look at the facts Law Dawg. (shaking my head)


KRW