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Ashe   10-27-2005, 10:41 AM
#1
I read this and the first thing I thought was "Repairman jack"


Quote:ON SHEEP, SHEEPDOGS, AND WOLVES

By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman,
RANGER, Ph.D.,author of "On Killing."

Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: "Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.
This post was last modified: 10-27-2005, 10:45 AM by Ashe.
Ashe   10-27-2005, 10:44 AM
#2
Quote:Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population.

There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the- belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in "Fear Less", his superb post-
9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.

If you are a warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on"
24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... "Baa."

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the- sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other.

Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth
=================
Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman's Biography

Biography: Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman LT. COL. DAVE GROSSMAN, US Army (Ret.) Director, Killology Research Group, http://www.killology.com Lt. Col. ..

Sorry about the huge size of the post.
matthewsmommy   10-27-2005, 11:00 AM
#3
I like it Smile

'Cause Mommy Said So.
IanSF   10-27-2005, 12:01 PM
#4
Ashe Wrote:Sorry about the huge size of the post.
Don't be sorry.
Some might say a link to the quote would have been better but there's nothing like having the truth 'in your face'.
If you don't like that, say "Baa..."
The Mad American   10-27-2005, 12:02 PM
#5
The only thing I don't like is the classification of evil people as wolves. The perception that wolves are these evil, kill kill kill animals is one of my pet peeves. Sorry.

The wolf is actually one of the most noble animals on the face of the planet. They where a large part of keeping the herd animals (deer, elk...etc etc) healthy and strong. They only ever kill for food and for what food is needed, never like they are depicted as wanton killers who kill everything in their path. They have a family structure and a society in which all things are to better serve the pack...Then man got involved and damn near whiped them from the face of the earth because of this perception.

Gah, sorry for hijacking the thread. Just one of my sore spots.

"No other success can compensate for failure in the home." D.O. McKay

"Never raise your hand to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected."
~ Red Buttons

Too literal? I'm sorry you feel I have a Literal Agenda!


t4terrific   10-27-2005, 03:40 PM
#6
The Mad American Wrote:The only thing I don't like is the classification of evil people as wolves. The perception that wolves are these evil, kill kill kill animals is one of my pet peeves. Sorry.

The wolf is actually one of the most noble animals on the face of the planet. They where a large part of keeping the herd animals (deer, elk...etc etc) healthy and strong. They only ever kill for food and for what food is needed, never like they are depicted as wanton killers who kill everything in their path. They have a family structure and a society in which all things are to better serve the pack...Then man got involved and damn near whiped them from the face of the earth because of this perception.

Gah, sorry for hijacking the thread. Just one of my sore spots.

In "the grand scheme of things", wolves are everything you said. If you are a small farmer, wolves can be a tremendous threat. As that farmer, who can't afford to lose a bit of livestock, killing any wolf you see (or any other predatorial animal that mat threaten), is much more reasonable than you make it seem. People took it to a devastating extreme at one point though and basically tried to exterminate the entire population. That sucks, I guess (though I don't think I'd want a pack of wolves running around my neighborhood).

I think wolves are excellent animals. I admire the wolf. It is a terrific hunter, and the societal tendencies of most dog-related animals is also a tremendous advantage.
KRW   10-27-2005, 08:50 PM
#7
Ashe Wrote:Sorry about the huge size of the post.

Sorry, didn't like it. It had some points, but most of this article is to make you feel better about giving up more freedom for more security from the powers that be. It paints the pretty picture for the police state. Trained for action they may be, but they,more than likely won't be there when needed. This paints the picture that they are.
Most people (truely) are stuck in their everyday life, can't tell one day from the next. But truth be told, these are the same men that are descendents of warriors. We are all descendants of warriors or your line would never have made it to the 21st Century. Maybe scared witless and not trained, but they fought. Now if I had to bet on it, I would bet the sheepdog (as you call them)
will be setting at home watching a ball game and called to action AFTER the fact. The ones that will fight the fight will be the regular Joes. The sheep if you will. And in America, sheep carry guns to church too.

The post was sooo long I can't remember all the problems, but here's the gist for me. Have a nice day.


KRW
KRW   10-27-2005, 08:57 PM
#8
t4terrific Wrote:In "the grand scheme of things", wolves are everything you said. If you are a small farmer, wolves can be a tremendous threat. As that farmer, who can't afford to lose a bit of livestock, killing any wolf you see (or any other predatorial animal that mat threaten), is much more reasonable than you make it seem. People took it to a devastating extreme at one point though and basically tried to exterminate the entire population. That sucks, I guess (though I don't think I'd want a pack of wolves running around my neighborhood).

I think wolves are excellent animals. I admire the wolf. It is a terrific hunter, and the societal tendencies of most dog-related animals is also a tremendous advantage.

Just remember, we invaded his territory. Not vice versa. We scared off or killed his food supply, but we brought in a good replacement. Since a wolf doesn't understand property rights, does that meen he deserves to die for eating the bounty that abounds before him? Remeber the virus speach in matrix? It does make since.


KRW
t4terrific   10-27-2005, 11:42 PM
#9
KRW Wrote:Just remember, we invaded his territory. Not vice versa. We scared off or killed his food supply, but we brought in a good replacement. Since a wolf doesn't understand property rights, does that meen he deserves to die for eating the bounty that abounds before him? Remeber the virus speach in matrix? It does make since.


KRW

I'm much more interested in my own survival though. Looking back, it's nice to say they should have been more fair, but I'd be more interested in my own well being first, second, third, fourth, and, fifth. Fairness to the wolves would have been lower on my scale of priorities. These people didn't have fat savings accounts, pension plans, real estate investments, and such manners of personal security we have today. They had to do all they could to make it through each winter. I'd never fault someone for doing what it takes to survive. If killing wolves was necessary to survive, then I'd rather see the wolves extinct than man. Wolves are great, and wonderful creatures. I have to root for my home team, that's mankind. I guess a coexistance could have been possible, but those people couldn't take chances. They were worried about their own survival. When there is that much at stake, there is no room for error.

I would be willing to kill 500 of the rarest ANIMALS (I'm not talking about people either) on Earth if it meant my own survival. I wouldn't even have to think about that one. It might suck, but that would be my choice every time. I don't hate the wolf, I admire them as much as you. I have to think about my own reallity, and in those shoes, I think my own survival outweighs fairness to animals or animals rights. Even the cute little Bambi doesn't hold a candle to my own desire to continue living.

That said, I'm all for doing everything possible, within reason, to protect animal species, plant species, lakes, rivers, coral reefs, and everything else that makes Earth such a wonderful place. I want to be able to go diving out at Point of Rocks Beach in 50 years, and it be as amazing as it was when I was 10. I want to go up in the hills in Alabama, follow a stream and see 10 or 15 box turtles there the way my dad and I did when I was a boy. I love the wilderness, and I love to see it untouched. Not at the expense of human lives though. I carried my pistol last time I was in them hills, and If I'd have had a run-in with some predatorial animal, I'd rather kill it, than be killed by it. Actually I'd rather watch it go on about it's business and give me something to marvel about for years.
Ashe   10-28-2005, 09:59 AM
#10
KRW Wrote:Sorry, didn't like it. It had some points, but most of this article is to make you feel better about giving up more freedom for more security from the powers that be. It paints the pretty picture for the police state. Trained for action they may be, but they,more than likely won't be there when needed. This paints the picture that they are.
Most people (truely) are stuck in their everyday life, can't tell one day from the next. But truth be told, these are the same men that are descendents of warriors. We are all descendants of warriors or your line would never have made it to the 21st Century. Maybe scared witless and not trained, but they fought. Now if I had to bet on it, I would bet the sheepdog (as you call them)
will be setting at home watching a ball game and called to action AFTER the fact. The ones that will fight the fight will be the regular Joes. The sheep if you will. And in America, sheep carry guns to church too.

The post was sooo long I can't remember all the problems, but here's the gist for me. Have a nice day.


KRW
I don't get anything you said from that.
I think it has more to do with people having to make a concious decision to acknowledge that there are people out there that do not and will not care a bucket of spit about you, your family, or anything that doesn't have to do with them.
Sheepdogs in this context are not the plice and the military but regular citizens who understand that the world isn't a pretty place and are willing to protect themselves and others from the predators that walk and talk like the rest of us.
The way I see it is if you are carrying a gun to church/the store/movies then you arn't a sheep anymore.

What you get from this article sounds to me like an argument I have used against Anti-Gun people several times. "Who is supposed to protect me and Mine until the police decide to show up? Am I supposed to ask the person who cares nothing for the law to wait a few minutes before they kill me? Or should I have the right to Fight back?" It seems to me that most sheep can't tell the difference between the SheepDog and the Wolf

I think that people will see what they want to see in this. In some ways I agree with what I believe you are saying, and I'm sure that if you extend your "Sheepdog" definition to include people who's job isn't "To Serve and Protect" but Cashiers, Stockbrokers, and Soccer Moms who decide to carry some sort of defense against the Wolves, then you may agree we see pretty much eye to eye, if not thats okay too.
This post was last modified: 10-28-2005, 10:07 AM by Ashe.
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