Howdy doo,
I was thinking about Jack’s overall character/personality, in light of what are for me a few noteworthy moments in the books.
Here are three of Jack’s four principal modes (at least the ones that I can think of):
- Jack as brother and son. Jack’s had his ups and downs with family members. It’s not as close and friendly a family as one would like, but it’s not too unusual. And Jack is fortunate enough to be able to resolve things with his father and sister to a greater extent than many people ever do.
- Jack as perfect boyfriend/husband/father. Apart from the conflicts arising from his, er, unusual life choices, he’s basically a woman’s (and child’s) dream come true: Steady-tempered, fair, fun, comfortable with intimacy, etc. (I know he has issues with giving up the repair work, but they don’t seem terribly agonizing -- the “how do I do it?” seems to bother him more than the “can I do it?”)
- Jack as cold, hard killer. Those brown eyes harden and it’s time for someone to die…
Those are the first three. The fourth principal mode, though, is what got me thinking about this in the first place. It is:
- Jack as juvenile.
Here are three scenes from the books that have really stuck out for me:
In Hosts, when Jack is with the reporter and witnesses a mugger fleeing a crime scene on a bicycle, he causes the mugger to crash his bike, and Jack proceeds to let loose with a very weird rant.
In Legacies, Jack prevents thieves from stealing Julio's car by means of that bizarre trick with the fake eyeball. I know that that scene is among some readers' favorite RJ moments, but it struck me as the kind of cringe-inducing, "neato!" fantasy a skinny 13-year old would have for dealing with the school bullies. I realize there are not many ways for one trained fighter to take down three men whose level of training is unknown, and that Jack’s trick in this scene might qualify as brilliant and embodying everything we love about him, etc. -- but there’s still… something about it that strikes me as characterological rather than tactical.
In The Haunted Air, after dispatching the big thug via a fork to the brain, Jack says something to his client along the lines of "Thought I was just a cute character, huh?!" This seems, frankly, somewhat insecure -- the client hadn’t heretofore behaved in a way suggesting he didn't respect Jack or think he was a serious dude. And even if he had, it’s noteworthy that Jack would cared enough to set someone’s view of him straight in this way.
Possibly another example of this is when he baits the three-card monte dealers in [?], and nearly gets killed by them. I’m not sure about that one, so I’m not including it.
Now, to get the obvious out of the way, all of the above are a testimony to FPW’s artistry: He’s given us a complicated, three-dimensional character who ultimately cannot be “understood” any more than any real person can be understood.
Nonetheless, I find in interesting to (try to) ponder that final category, "Jack as juvenile." It makes me realize that, in fiction as in life, it can be easy to want to pin down who a person “really” is. In the case of RJ, my inclination is to think that “Jack as cold/hard killer” is somehow more the real Jack than “Jack as juvenile.” (In the same way, say, that “Jack as cold hard killer” is more real than the flamboyant homosexual character he pretends to be in Crisscross -- and there the distinction is indeed accurate).
But he’s not, is he?
I find that fascinating, not only because it makes Jack more interesting, complex, etc., but also because it shows him to be more fractured, precarious, and tentative -- both to us (as a fictional character) and to himself (as an identity).
What I trace this too, or at least would like to trace it to, since it’s so poignant, is his mother’s death -- though it would of course also have to do with his innate temperament. He’s a guy who, filled with rage and pain, forcibly quitted adolescence, and is still somewhat uintegrated and unstable. The fact that there is something suicidal at the core of what he does is another aspect of this.
I think this is all terrific stuff. Perhaps the one thing that strikes me as being a bit weak is the “Jack as perfect boyfriend/husband/father” mode. It seems exceedingly unrealistic that a person like Jack would not have pretty serious problems to overcome in a committed relationship. I realize that what we have here in not an average guy -- we have a person so unusual as to be unique in all history -- so one could certainly argue that Jack simply has a staggering ability to compartmentalize and that he is able to focus all his love/stability/maturity/hope etc. on his relationship with Gia and the squirt (not to mention using his relationship with them to create the happy family he never had) -- and I guess that's fine. A bit of a stretch (to me), but not enough to constitute a major weakness.
-Oss
I was thinking about Jack’s overall character/personality, in light of what are for me a few noteworthy moments in the books.
Here are three of Jack’s four principal modes (at least the ones that I can think of):
- Jack as brother and son. Jack’s had his ups and downs with family members. It’s not as close and friendly a family as one would like, but it’s not too unusual. And Jack is fortunate enough to be able to resolve things with his father and sister to a greater extent than many people ever do.
- Jack as perfect boyfriend/husband/father. Apart from the conflicts arising from his, er, unusual life choices, he’s basically a woman’s (and child’s) dream come true: Steady-tempered, fair, fun, comfortable with intimacy, etc. (I know he has issues with giving up the repair work, but they don’t seem terribly agonizing -- the “how do I do it?” seems to bother him more than the “can I do it?”)
- Jack as cold, hard killer. Those brown eyes harden and it’s time for someone to die…
Those are the first three. The fourth principal mode, though, is what got me thinking about this in the first place. It is:
- Jack as juvenile.
Here are three scenes from the books that have really stuck out for me:
In Hosts, when Jack is with the reporter and witnesses a mugger fleeing a crime scene on a bicycle, he causes the mugger to crash his bike, and Jack proceeds to let loose with a very weird rant.
In Legacies, Jack prevents thieves from stealing Julio's car by means of that bizarre trick with the fake eyeball. I know that that scene is among some readers' favorite RJ moments, but it struck me as the kind of cringe-inducing, "neato!" fantasy a skinny 13-year old would have for dealing with the school bullies. I realize there are not many ways for one trained fighter to take down three men whose level of training is unknown, and that Jack’s trick in this scene might qualify as brilliant and embodying everything we love about him, etc. -- but there’s still… something about it that strikes me as characterological rather than tactical.
In The Haunted Air, after dispatching the big thug via a fork to the brain, Jack says something to his client along the lines of "Thought I was just a cute character, huh?!" This seems, frankly, somewhat insecure -- the client hadn’t heretofore behaved in a way suggesting he didn't respect Jack or think he was a serious dude. And even if he had, it’s noteworthy that Jack would cared enough to set someone’s view of him straight in this way.
Possibly another example of this is when he baits the three-card monte dealers in [?], and nearly gets killed by them. I’m not sure about that one, so I’m not including it.
* * *
Now, to get the obvious out of the way, all of the above are a testimony to FPW’s artistry: He’s given us a complicated, three-dimensional character who ultimately cannot be “understood” any more than any real person can be understood.
Nonetheless, I find in interesting to (try to) ponder that final category, "Jack as juvenile." It makes me realize that, in fiction as in life, it can be easy to want to pin down who a person “really” is. In the case of RJ, my inclination is to think that “Jack as cold/hard killer” is somehow more the real Jack than “Jack as juvenile.” (In the same way, say, that “Jack as cold hard killer” is more real than the flamboyant homosexual character he pretends to be in Crisscross -- and there the distinction is indeed accurate).
But he’s not, is he?
I find that fascinating, not only because it makes Jack more interesting, complex, etc., but also because it shows him to be more fractured, precarious, and tentative -- both to us (as a fictional character) and to himself (as an identity).
What I trace this too, or at least would like to trace it to, since it’s so poignant, is his mother’s death -- though it would of course also have to do with his innate temperament. He’s a guy who, filled with rage and pain, forcibly quitted adolescence, and is still somewhat uintegrated and unstable. The fact that there is something suicidal at the core of what he does is another aspect of this.
* * *
I think this is all terrific stuff. Perhaps the one thing that strikes me as being a bit weak is the “Jack as perfect boyfriend/husband/father” mode. It seems exceedingly unrealistic that a person like Jack would not have pretty serious problems to overcome in a committed relationship. I realize that what we have here in not an average guy -- we have a person so unusual as to be unique in all history -- so one could certainly argue that Jack simply has a staggering ability to compartmentalize and that he is able to focus all his love/stability/maturity/hope etc. on his relationship with Gia and the squirt (not to mention using his relationship with them to create the happy family he never had) -- and I guess that's fine. A bit of a stretch (to me), but not enough to constitute a major weakness.
-Oss
This post was last modified: 10-25-2005, 03:34 PM by Ossicle.
Ya know, Oss, you could make a killing selling essays and research papers. Some kids here pay upwards of $10 per page, want me to hook you up? I can't offer much feedback to your post, too many textbooks clouding my memory of any Jack book. But I can agree that Jack is an amazing character. I love his juvenile side.
'Cause Mommy Said So.
Ossicle, just curious...what is your profession?
Reading is freedom.
The mind soars, no earthly cares,
no limitations.
A Maggers Haiku, 2005
Years ago my mother used to say to me... "In this world, Elwood, you can be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
Well, for years I was smart.
I recommend pleasant.
You may quote me.
Elwood P. Dowd
Maggers Wrote:Ossicle, just curious...what is your profession?I'm the assistant for the Technology Department of a law firm. I'm hoping to finally (after 15 years of trying) become a professional screenwriter in the next 6-12 months, as my writing partner and I are receiving attention from some very good people/companies.
I'm very excited, though it could Oh-so-easily come to nothing. As FPW has made amply clear in his periodic updates, the movie business is just a relentless delight.
Ossicle Wrote:I'm the assistant for the Technology Department of a law firm. I'm hoping to finally (after 15 years of trying) become a professional screenwriter in the next 6-12 months, as my writing partner and I are receiving attention from some very good people/companies.
I'm very excited, though it could Oh-so-easily come to nothing. As FPW has made amply clear in his periodic updates, the movie business is just a relentless delight.
Thanks for answering. Your thorough and thoughtful posts have a sense of both technology and lawyerliness. Very interesting.
Good luck with the screenwriting!
Reading is freedom.
The mind soars, no earthly cares,
no limitations.
A Maggers Haiku, 2005
Years ago my mother used to say to me... "In this world, Elwood, you can be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
Well, for years I was smart.
I recommend pleasant.
You may quote me.
Elwood P. Dowd
[Thought I posted something like this earlier, but I don't see it.]
Whoops: In my initial post, I meant to note that the very moving scene with Jack toward the end of Nightworld connects closely to this business of "Jack as juvenile" -- I mean the scene where he's despondent over having failed to get the second necklace. The other characters all comfort him and it's obviously one of the more tender, affecting moments of his adult life. (Possibly such a moment for us readers, as well.)
Something that makes me a bit melancholy is that when the reworked NW appears, that lovely scene won't survive in it present form. While the Jack who will have lived through the subsequent novels will by no means, I'm sure, be at the end of his personal journey, he will also just not be quite as vulnerable and lonely a cipher as he was at the end of the original series.
Change is sad!
-O
Whoops: In my initial post, I meant to note that the very moving scene with Jack toward the end of Nightworld connects closely to this business of "Jack as juvenile" -- I mean the scene where he's despondent over having failed to get the second necklace. The other characters all comfort him and it's obviously one of the more tender, affecting moments of his adult life. (Possibly such a moment for us readers, as well.)
Something that makes me a bit melancholy is that when the reworked NW appears, that lovely scene won't survive in it present form. While the Jack who will have lived through the subsequent novels will by no means, I'm sure, be at the end of his personal journey, he will also just not be quite as vulnerable and lonely a cipher as he was at the end of the original series.
Change is sad!
-O
Maggers Wrote:Thanks for answering. Your thorough and thoughtful posts have a sense of both technology and lawyerliness. Very interesting.
Good luck with the screenwriting!
Thank you very much!
Don't want this thread to be about me, though -- anyone have any thoughts about Jack they've been dying to get off their chest?!
-Oss
Ossicle Wrote:Thank you very much!
Don't want this thread to be about me, though -- anyone have any thoughts about Jack they've been dying to get off their chest?!
-Oss
My veiws on Jack as a person.
Work Jack:
He loves life, but not scared of death.
Hates to see wrongs and enjoys making them right.
He knows what it takes to survive in the world he chooses to live in.
He's nobody's fool but can have a big heart.
Likes to fix the punishment to fit the crime.
He has honor, but will throw it out the window when his are threatened.
He doesn't gossip. His lips are sealed.
A handshake is his word!
All in all, good qualitys if you hire him. He is the regular "stand up kind of guy".
When excepts your job, you feel better but can have a few reservations about his actual physical prowess. But no doubt the person who refered him gave him a sparkling reccomendation.
Then their is regualur Jack:
Doesn't label friends easily and makes quality choices in the ones he chooses.
Usually in a good mood unless he's distracted by work.
Loves kids and likes to make them smile.
He respects women but only needs the love of one.
Always up for an art exibit,
! Actually, he'd rather see a great movie with a good steak dinner, but going out with his lady to persue her interest that he doesn't like works for him too.As a regular guy he's a friend you would want at your back. He's not akward in playing with kids, but a little unsure when it comes to taking care of them on an extended bases. More than likely opens doors for women and makes sure they get across the street alright.
Juvinile Jack:
Up to a point he's thinking, and makes some good plans. When the plans don't work for him, he can improvise on the spot. But he can truley lose it when he gets his hands on a scum bag, no thought, all instinct. A berzerker rage if you will. I'm sure some of the things he's done has even shocked him. He might even feal guilty about a few, but most deserved it and he can live with that. The only time he sleeps bad at night is when he takes something personal. He'll do his damndest to fix it.
This should all come through in reading his books.
Ossicle Wrote:Great summary! I chuckled when I read this one:
As Kusim from The Tomb could tell us!
Er, yes!
-oss
Sorry, best I could do. I relate to Jack in a lot off ways, so I've never really tried to figure him out. But he is a trip, isn't he?
KRW