I first discovered Jack in Legacies, and thought him the most enjoyable, fresh and captivating adventure hero I'd seen in many a year. Then I went back to The Tomb and read the novels in order. I just finished Haunted Air and would like to get some feedback before I continue.

A big problem arose with Hosts. Jack suddenly turned as dense as a lead block. Here's a guy with a sharply-honed sense of paranoia, capable of picking up the subtlest indicators of trouble in time to turn the table on the Bad Guys (F'rinstance, the arsonist siblings from the aforementioned Hosts). Yet, despite the fact that he knows perfectly well by that novel that The Otherness is gunning for him, depite being repeatedly clubbed over the head with increasingly obvious indicators of what he was up again, he remained utterly clueless through 80% of the book.

He was significantly quicker in Haunted Air but still slow on the uptake. Things of a significance that would have put him on immediate alert if he'd been dealing with ordinary criminals don't even register when The Otherness is involved. And by now, those are the type of indicators a person of Jacks cautious nature would be most on the watch for.

I love Jack. But this sort of sloppy storytelling is beginning to really annoy me.

Before I go out and invest a few dollars and several hours in Gateways and Crisscross I'd like to get some reassurance that FPW has returned to the smarter plotting I've known him for and that Jack returns to at least reasonable competence.

Input?

I LOVED Gateways and Crisscross! I am so impatient for Infernal to come out I can't stand it. Buy them!

I first discovered Jack in Legacies, and thought him the most enjoyable, fresh and captivating adventure hero I'd seen in many a year. Then I went back to The Tomb and read the novels in order. I just finished Haunted Air and would like to get some feedback before I continue.

A big problem arose with Hosts. Jack suddenly turned as dense as a lead block. Here's a guy with a sharply-honed sense of paranoia, capable of picking up the subtlest indicators of trouble in time to turn the table on the Bad Guys (F'rinstance, the arsonist siblings from the aforementioned Hosts). Yet, despite the fact that he knows perfectly well by that novel that The Otherness is gunning for him, depite being repeatedly clubbed over the head with increasingly obvious indicators of what he was up again, he remained utterly clueless through 80% of the book.

He was significantly quicker in Haunted Air but still slow on the uptake. Things of a significance that would have put him on immediate alert if he'd been dealing with ordinary criminals don't even register when The Otherness is involved. And by now, those are the type of indicators a person of Jacks cautious nature would be most on the watch for.

I love Jack. But this sort of sloppy storytelling is beginning to really annoy me.

Before I go out and invest a few dollars and several hours in Gateways and Crisscross I'd like to get some reassurance that FPW has returned to the smarter plotting I've known him for and that Jack returns to at least reasonable competence.

Input?

Honestly, of the entire series, Crisscross is my favorite book. Right up there with Legacies. I thought Gateways strayed from the beaten Jack path of parallel fix-its/discoveries/cunning tricks. Which is not a bad thing, just different from the rest in my humble opinion. I can't tell you what to read (i've learned the hard way that recommendations are hardly ever right) What I can say, is that you've already invest so much into the series and Jack, why don't you give him another chance?

But this sort of sloppy storytelling is beginning to really annoy me.

Wow, I have never considered FPW to be a sloppy story teller. In fact, I was telling someone last night how utterly and completely accurate FPW is in the details and descriptions of people and places.

Now, every great once in a while there might be a slip up in continuity from book to book, after all, it's a lot of detail to keep up with and that's why FPW et al have begun gathering information for a Compendium to FPW's works.

But the kind of sloppy storytelling you are referencing is not something I've experienced with either "Haunted Air" or "Hosts." Can you give an example? I can't think of anything like that in either book, but it's been a while since I've read them.

P.S. "Gateways" and "Crisscross" were fantastic!

I first discovered Jack in Legacies, and thought him the most enjoyable, fresh and captivating adventure hero I'd seen in many a year. Then I went back to The Tomb and read the novels in order. I just finished Haunted Air and would like to get some feedback before I continue.

A big problem arose with Hosts. Jack suddenly turned as dense as a lead block. Here's a guy with a sharply-honed sense of paranoia, capable of picking up the subtlest indicators of trouble in time to turn the table on the Bad Guys (F'rinstance, the arsonist siblings from the aforementioned Hosts). Yet, despite the fact that he knows perfectly well by that novel that The Otherness is gunning for him, depite being repeatedly clubbed over the head with increasingly obvious indicators of what he was up again, he remained utterly clueless through 80% of the book.

He was significantly quicker in Haunted Air but still slow on the uptake. Things of a significance that would have put him on immediate alert if he'd been dealing with ordinary criminals don't even register when The Otherness is involved. And by now, those are the type of indicators a person of Jacks cautious nature would be most on the watch for.

I love Jack. But this sort of sloppy storytelling is beginning to really annoy me.

Before I go out and invest a few dollars and several hours in Gateways and Crisscross I'd like to get some reassurance that FPW has returned to the smarter plotting I've known him for and that Jack returns to at least reasonable competence.

Input?

I believe I know what you're talking about. Put yourself in Jacks shoes for a minute. He knows about the Otherness and he knows he's involved. But the human mind always strives to make sense out of the impossible. And most things he still deals with are not Otherness related (between books). He'll probably get quicker on recognizing and admitting that it is the Otherness. But he's just been in this for a short time, and if he starts thinking everything is because of the Otherness, he'd probably go crazy in a short time. I've only read as far as The Haunted Air, but he seems to me to be getting a little more comfortable with a very obscure problem (the Otherness) and when he is finally convinced of it, then he acts accordingly, if he knows how to react. I know I would have trouble accepting his problems. Don't know if this helps but maybe it's an angle you haven't looked at.


KRW

I first discovered Jack in Legacies, and thought him the most enjoyable, fresh and captivating adventure hero I'd seen in many a year. Then I went back to The Tomb and read the novels in order. I just finished Haunted Air and would like to get some feedback before I continue.

A big problem arose with Hosts. Jack suddenly turned as dense as a lead block. Here's a guy with a sharply-honed sense of paranoia, capable of picking up the subtlest indicators of trouble in time to turn the table on the Bad Guys (F'rinstance, the arsonist siblings from the aforementioned Hosts). Yet, despite the fact that he knows perfectly well by that novel that The Otherness is gunning for him, depite being repeatedly clubbed over the head with increasingly obvious indicators of what he was up again, he remained utterly clueless through 80% of the book.

And I suppose you wouldn't -- remain clueless that is.

Jack dealt with the Rakoshi in The Tomb and All The Rage. He met Sal Roma in Conspiracies. So far, there is no evidence to link Roma and the Rakoshi, and there is DEFINITELY no evidence to link Roma with a virus.

I love Jack. But this sort of sloppy storytelling is beginning to really annoy me.

Then maybe you ought to go back to Bugs Bunny cartoons.

Before I go out and invest a few dollars and several hours in Gateways and Crisscross I'd like to get some reassurance that FPW has returned to the smarter plotting I've known him for and that Jack returns to at least reasonable competence.

Input?

Nice!

I notice this is your first post. If you are going to be this insulting, I hope it's also your last.

Ken V.

Maggers wrote:

But the kind of sloppy storytelling you are referencing is not something I've experienced with either "Haunted Air" or "Hosts." Can you give an example?

Glad to. But let me first address KRW's point on the way...

Put yourself in Jacks shoes for a minute. He knows about the Otherness and he knows he's involved. But the human mind always strives to make sense out of the impossible. And most things he still deals with are not Otherness related (between books). He'll probably get quicker on recognizing and admitting that it is the Otherness. But he's just been in this for a short time, and if he starts thinking everything is because of the Otherness, he'd probably go crazy in a short time. I've only read as far as The Haunted Air, but he seems to me to be getting a little more comfortable with a very obscure problem (the Otherness) and when he is finally convinced of it, then he acts accordingly, if he knows how to react

This is absolutely true and a good point. It explains the way Jack acts all the way up through All the Rage. But let's step back one from that to Conspiracies. When that book began, he knew he'd come across something unexplainable in the rakoshi, but didn't know what he was dealing with. By the end of that book, however, he knew that the Otherness was out there, that it was real, and that it was after him specifically.

Consider as well that Jack is proud of his paranoia. He lives his life covering his tracks and watching over his shoulder. If somebody has a grudge against him, he knows and is watching for signs. Look at how quickly he got onto the Kozlowski brothers in Hosts.

But now, look at everything else in that book. And here we return to Maggers's request for examples.

Early on, when Jack first talks to Kate on the phone, he learns that she got his number from a strange woman who insisted that only he could help. Does that trigger any alarms for you? Considering how much it's like the way Jack got involved in Conspiracies, it should have put him on alert immediately. It didn't, though. Now that's out of character.

Next, he discovers that his sister's problem involves Jeanette who, after undergoing experimental chemical treatment, suffers a severe change in personality. Do the parallels from All the Rage even cross his mind? Nope! Not even after he learns that the medicinal strain used underwent a mysterious mutation.

More than halfway through the book, when the Russian lady arrives at his bedside with dire warnings, despite everything else, he blows the whole thing off as a dream.

There are events like that throughout the entire book. And while you might argue that even Jack might miss one indicator, he misses them time after time after time. His actions, or more properly, lack of actions, have no logic other than the contrived one of getting the plot to the next point. Not only is this out of character for Jack, but it's out of character for FPW who usually crafts his stories with nice tight plots where things happen because of his characters' personalities and inclinations rather than despite them.

Now, Ken, you wrote:

So far, there is no evidence to link Roma and the Rakoshi, and there is DEFINITELY no evidence to link Roma with a virus.

The entirety of Conspiracies links the rakoshi to the Otherness. As far as Sal Roma is concerned, Jack knows perfectly well that there is more to the Otherness than Roma, and he is not its only operative (though Jack knows may well be its main one).

If you are going to be this insulting, I hope it's also your last.

Sorry to disappoint you. And if you consider this insulting, you should go learn the difference between criticism and insult. FPW is a terrific writer and storyteller. Due to the quality of most of his work, I've come to hold him to a very high standard. So far, I've had only one major and one minor disappointment. And if you think that being a fan means uncritical acceptance, you do no favors to either yourself or FPW.

I've seen many many talented creators in various fields start slipping because they start putting out works too fast, without taking the time and care required to bring their later works up to the standards of their earlier ones. I don't want that to happen with Jack. I do not want FPW to become known, outside a cult following, as a guy who created a few great stories and followed them with a descent into drek (Frank Herbert comes to mind as an example). But if he does go that way, I don't need the heartbreak of watching it happen.

And finally, Paige notes:

Honestly, of the entire series, Crisscross is my favorite book. Right up there with Legacies.

Now that's the sort of comment I was hoping to find. Legacies was nothing short of sheer joy and showcased Jack at his very best. if either of the two as-yet-unread books are even 75% that good, I'll rush out to Borders and pick them up.

Welcome to the board, saglaser.

It's nice to see someone with a dissenting opinion who doesn't get bullied easily. Well thought out post. I hope you stick around.

Thanks, Jimbo!

And call me Steve

I'vce been reading the board on and off for a while now so I'm not quite as new as I look. And as for being bullied easily, ahh, you should see some of the tough online circles I've run in

Good to be here and pleased to make your acquaintance. All of you. Even those I disagree with.

*****************Some Spoilers Ahead, Maybe*******************

******************for a variety of FPW books, maybe**************

Early on, when Jack first talks to Kate on the phone, he learns that she got his number from a strange woman who insisted that only he could help.

Does that trigger any alarms for you? Considering how much it's like the way Jack got involved in Conspiracies, it should have put him on alert immediately. It didn't, though. Now that's out of character.

Yes, Jack received the same message from Lew in "Conspiracies," who said that his wife Melanie contacted him (through the TV!!) with that statement. But consider Jack's line of work. I don't think it would be out of the ordinary at all for a new client to say that only Jack could help. If I heard about a "typical" RJ fix-it story and I was in the kind of predicament in which Jack's "ordinary" customers find themselves, where they can't go to the police or any other authority, I absolutely can see myself leaving a message for Jack that only he can help. No two ways about that! In fact, I suspect that would be exactly what I would say.

Next, he discovers that his sister's problem involves Jeanette who, after undergoing experimental chemical treatment, suffers a severe change in personality. Do the parallels from All the Rage even cross his mind? Nope! Not even after he learns that the medicinal strain used underwent a mysterious mutation.

Throughout the RJ novels, Jack continues not to jump to the conclusion that everything he encounters is connected to the Otherness. I don't see that as evidence of dullness on Jack's part or shoddy story telling on FPW's part. I see it as evidence of Jack's simply being human. Why would he connect everything to the Otherness. Not everything is connected to it (yet! wait until NIGHTWORLD!!). I think it makes perfect sense that Jack would turn first to the ordinary explanation and only after all attempts at making sense in that venue fail turn to the extraordinary for the answer. It's what we all do. We don't look to aliens for the answers to our everyday questions or nagging pesky problems, unless, of course, we are an ultra-paranoid member of SESOUP.

More than halfway through the book, when the Russian lady arrives at his bedside with dire warnings, despite everything else, he blows the whole thing off as a dream.

Again, I don't see a problem with this. Jack still needs to be convinced that every woman with a dog is connected to him via his battle with the Otherness. He doesn't know that yet. Jack doesn't know that he is the protaganist in a long series of spectacular books about the supernatural. Jack just thinks he's an ordinary pirate-like character, living on the fringes of society, just outside the law. He still looks to earthly reasons for explanations.

I do not want FPW to become known, outside a cult following, as a guy who created a few great stories and followed them with a descent into drek (Frank Herbert comes to mind as an example). But if he does go that way, I don't need the heartbreak of watching it happen.

I haven't had a single ounce of heartbreak in my 23 years of following FPW's career (except when characters that I've become attached to bite the dust, and that's just plain great storytelling). He has never failed to enchant and terrify me.

Drek???? No way, Jose.