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Abe...Nu? - XiaoYu - 06-08-2004
Hello all!
I'm a newb here, so I'm not sure if Abe's language has been discussed before or not. But I've been dying to know more about his style of talking. What exactly does "Nu" mean? I've been trying to figure out ever since I started reading Jack, and even now, after Midnight Mass, I'm still floundering. I take it to mean a combo of 'what, where, huh, duh...'? Also, the funny grammar, and usage of 'should'...I should think these are all Yiddishms?
Abe...Nu? - Noelie - 06-09-2004
According to one of my Yiddish speaking friends, Nu? means So?
I don't know how to explain the use of the word "should". A lot of Jewish people, especially from the northeast, use "should" a particular way - and I've always figured it must have something to do with speaking Yiddish, but I'm not positive. I've mostly heard older people speak that way, so that would seem to indicate that it does have something to do with Yiddish, but that's just a supposition.
I should be answering this post, why?
Abe...Nu? - fpw - 06-09-2004
XiaoYu Wrote:should think these are all Yiddishms?
What Noelie said. And it's known as Yiddishkeit or, more recently, Hebonics. I have friends who can turn it on and off, and I get most of it from them. A lot of it is rhythm and intonation that's hard to get across in print, but listen to Judd Hirsch in Independence Day and you'll have a clue.
Ages ago I copied the following from somewhere on the Internet:
Here are some descriptions of the characteristics of the language,
and samples of phrases in standard English and Hebonics ...
Jewish English or "Hebonics" hardens consonants at the ends
of words. Thus, "hand" becomes "handt."
The letter "W" is always pronounced as if it were a "V";
thus, "walking" becomes "valking."
"R" sounds are transformed to a guttural utterance that's
virtually impossible to spell in English: "It's 'ghraining'
'algheady.'"
2.0 Idiomatic Characteristics of Hebonics ...
* Questions are always answered with questions:
Question: "How do you feel?"
Hebonics response: "How should I feel?"
* Words should always be rearranged; when this is not possible,
then add extra sounds to the words:
The subject is often placed at the end of a sentence
after a pronoun has been used at the beginning: "She
dances beautifully, that girl."
The sarcastic repetition of words by adding "sh" to the
front is used for emphasis, e.g.: mountains becomes
"shmountains, turtle becomes "shmurtle"
3.0 Sample Usage Comparisons
Standard English Phrase........................Hebonics Phrase
"He walks slowly"...................."Like a fly in the ointment, he walks"
"You're sexy"...................................(unknown concept)
"Sorry, I do not know the time"......."What do I look like, a clock?"
"I hope things turn out for the best"......"You should BE so lucky"
"Anything can happen"................"It's never so bad it can't get worse"
Abe...Nu? - Kenji - 06-09-2004
Please somebody tell me.
I don't know when Abe said "Nu"....Please tell me that "Nu" in dialogue, one example. What book,what scene,talked to who... I don't know how translation to Japanese.
Abe...Nu? - Noelie - 06-09-2004
Quote:A lot of it is rhythm and intonation that's hard to get across in print
That's exactly what I was getting at when I said I didn't know how to explain it. I was going to say that it had to do with the cadence, and the order in which they say the words, but I was tired and didn't know if that would make any sense.
Judd Hirsh in Independence Day is a great example. Another good place to hear at least the cadence is Carl Reiner and Elliott Gould in Ocean's 11. I don't recall if they used actual "Yiddishisms" in that movie, but there were times that they definitely had the cadence.
Kenji: The Haunted Air, page 240. "Nu?" Abe said as he arranged - with surprising delicacy for his pudgy fingers - strips of lox across the inner surface of a sliced bagel. "Got what?"
And on page 242. "Nu? Is there some part of this story I'm missing?"
I don't know if those will help, but those are examples.
Abe...Nu? - Kenji - 06-09-2004
Noelie Wrote:Kenji: The Haunted Air, page 240. "Nu?" Abe said as he arranged - with surprising delicacy for his pudgy fingers - strips of lox across the inner surface of a sliced bagel. "Got what?"
And on page 242. "Nu? Is there some part of this story I'm missing?"
I don't know if those will help, but those are examples.
Oh....wait a minute. In Japan,The Haunted Air is not release.
The last RJ books is All the Rage. And...if you tell me the page, Japanese editins and American editions are complete different page. But anyway, thanks for checked, Noelie.
Abe...Nu? - Noelie - 06-09-2004
I thought about the page numbers after I typed it. Duh.
I just flipped through Legacies, and only found one place where Abe says, "Nu?", and he just uses it like the word, "So?". I'm not sure where my copy of All the Rage is, but I'll let you know if I find something there that will help you to understand.
Abe...Nu? - Scott Miller - 06-09-2004
fpw Wrote:"You're sexy"...................................(unknown concept)
Thankfully on a school computer so I don't have to clean the soda from the screen as thoroughly as I would my own.
Scott
Abe...Nu? - Ken Valentine - 06-09-2004
Kenji Asakura Wrote:Please somebody tell me.
I don't know when Abe said "Nu"....Please tell me that "Nu" in dialogue, one example. What book,what scene,talked to who... I don't know how translation to Japanese.
It's probably translated into Japanese as Ahso, or Ahsoka.
Nu, as I remember it, can be used as either a statement or question. It depends on HOW it is said. We don't have the verbal question mark "ka" in our language, so questions are formed by a rise or fall of the voice while speaking.
Ken V.
Abe...Nu? - Ken Valentine - 06-09-2004
Quote: Jewish English or "Hebonics" hardens consonants at the ends
of words. Thus, "hand" becomes "handt."
Also, the hard accentuation of the "g" sound as in words like ringing, and singing. They come out like ring-ging-g and sing-ging-g.
Quote:The letter "W" is always pronounced as if it were a "V";
thus, "walking" becomes "valking."
"R" sounds are transformed to a guttural utterance that's
virtually impossible to spell in English: "It's 'ghraining'
'algheady.'"
The subject is often placed at the end of a sentence
after a pronoun has been used at the beginning: "She
dances beautifully, that girl."
I suspect that this is a result of substituting English words for the Germanic words (Yiddish is a dialect of German) while keeping Germanic pronunciation of the alphabet, and the Germanic gramatical structure. ("W" is pronounced as "V", and "V" is pronounced as a combination of "V" and "F".
So you will find statements like, "Throw the cow over the fence, some hay." Or, "Bring Mama home in a bag, some bread."
Quote:The sarcastic repetition of words by adding "sh" to the
front is used for emphasis, e.g.: mountains becomes
"shmountains, turtle becomes "shmurtle"
Mountains, shmountains, I should care about mountains?
My own belief, is that people came to the U.S. as adults, and while struggling to earn a living, never learned English properly. They spoke the "old language" at home and used what English they knew only in public or at work. Their children grew up speaking Yiddish at home as their parents did, but improved their English at school. Culturally, they possibly kept many of the mispronunciations and much of the gramatical structure out of respect for their parents.
Ennyway, That's how Ah see it.
Ken V.