+- RepairmanJack.com Forums (https://repairmanjack.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Other Topics (https://repairmanjack.com/forum/forum-9.html)
+--- Forum: Off Topic (https://repairmanjack.com/forum/forum-4.html)
+--- Thread: The Keep (the film) (/thread-3830.html)
Pages:
1
2
The Keep (the film) - molasar808 - 06-16-2010
I am certain that this is a subject that has been broached on various occasions and a very polarizing subject as well. However I wanted to pry back the “silver cross” on the film and open this topic up for discussion. I realize that there will be divisive viewpoints on the subject but I’d like to see what the consensus of forum members is.
I am aware of Mr. Wilson’s disdain for the film version of The Keep and I sympathize completely. If I had written something as engaging, exciting, and effectively horrifying as The Keep, only to have it chewed up and spit out by the Hollywood machine as a “representation” of my work, I’d be pretty effin’ pissed also.
I am also aware that there were significant problems during the production of The Keep. Michael Mann did not have the clout to support his “my way or the highway” attitude then as he does now (Public Enemies anyone?). As this was basically, right on the heels of the “Heaven’s Gate” debacle, I would assume that Paramount wasn’t interested in a 3 hour movie about a “demon” holed up in a castle, with Nazis, and Scott Glenn, so the theatrical release was a mish-mash of themes and visuals that never captured the grander notions of unbridled, wanton evil and unwanted but tremendous responsibility to keep that evil in check. Notions and themes found in the novel. I say all of this being a huge fan of all of Michael Mann’s films. Yes, even The Keep.
Allow me to explain.
The first time I saw The Keep I was 12 years old. It was running on cable and when I first watched it I was in complete awe. Admittedly, I also thought “Metalstorm: The Destruction of Jared-Syn” was covered in awesome sauce (Sorry FPW!). The combination of the acting, the music, the style and action gave me a wide eyed appreciation for film and its possibilities. Think of it, a horror movie with Nazis. The endless ideas poured into my head. I’d see it here and there running on HBO or Prism (for you old school Philly folks) and I would stop everything to view it again and again. Sometimes my mom would be watching too and would say, “What the hell is this crap you’re watching?” or,”Is this a war movie or a horror movie?” and “What’s with the music? Turn it off and go outside.” Obviously my mother knew what she was talking about because there are a hell of a lot more people that feel her way about the movie than don’t.
I did what all 12 year old boys do; I got distracted by other things and forgot about The Keep. But just as Rasalom slumbered within Jim Stevens, The Keep was always there just below the surface.
Ten years later…
I’m having a conversation with a couple of friends of mine about movies we watched as kids and one of my friends brings up The Keep. I immediately reach back into the depths of my brain and remember it and before I know it, I blurt out,” Yo! That movie is awesome!” They both looked at me as if I said I Adolf Hitler was the greatest leader the world had ever known and then begin to ridicule me for my apparent lack of taste in movies. As I was attempting to qualify my statement I realized that I hadn’t seen it for ten years and maybe I needed to see it again to find out if I felt the same way. So I went on a quest to find the VHS tape to no avail (I had moved to Northeast Wisconsin by this time and video stores didn’t carry it for rental. Plus it was 1995 and well, the internet was still in its public infancy). I managed to find a copy for sale at a Sun Coast Pictures, but it was $39.99 and I couldn’t bring myself to purchase it. Then, five years later, I found it on Amazon for $19.99 and bought it. I was rife with anticipation and was thoroughly looking forward to seeing it again. When it arrived I couldn’t wait to see it. My wife had absolutely no interest in watching it because she thought it was a pile of crap when she saw it the first time. So I watched it by myself and suffice to say, I was very disappointed. I realized that maybe my friends were right, maybe it was my inner geek that remembered the adolescent wonder I felt when I saw it for the first time, never paying attention to how disjointed the plot was, how erratic the editing was, or how stupid Rasalom looked. I rewound the tape and put it away wondering how I could recoup a part of the time and money I had spent.
Then something interesting happened…
I was at a book sale at the local library and while perusing I came across a copy of “The Keep” by F. Paul Wilson. Truth be told, I had no idea that this was what the film was based on until I read the first few pages. Well I bought it right there and read it that night. I was literally blown away by the story, the depth of character, and level of fright this story evoked from me. Well, I told my wife about the novel and asked her to read it. She looked at me with a “You must be out yo got-damned mind!” look until I explained to her that the book was incomprehensibly superior to the film and she then realized that I was serious. She read the book and was impressed, which is fantastic considering my wife doesn’t read much fiction at all, and said, “I wish the movie was this good.” That’s when it hit me; I need to re-watch the film with the novel as a point of reference. I did and you know what? I actually liked the movie again. I think it was a combination of things that led me to that conclusion, the biggest being with the exception of the time, setting, and very basic premise, these were two totally different stories each with their own merits. Frankly, I don’t think I need to expound on the merits of the book as none of us would be hanging around this forum if I had to do that. Regarding the film however, I think it is necessary to explain my opinion in order to justify this rather long soliloquy…
While the film is far from exceptional, I find myself enjoying the overall aesthetic of the piece. I enjoyed the visuals (keeping 1983 in mind) including the murky surroundings, the heaviness of the atmosphere and the use of slow motion. The Tangerine Dream soundtrack is a bit cheesy but when Dr. Cuza is marching the talisman out of the depths of the mountain and through the keep, the swelling and ethereal sound of “Talisman” I get a little excited. Some of the special effects, while dated, are still pretty cool to me (Rasalom still looks stupid though). I would be remiss if I didn’t concede that yes, the story misses the mark and some of the acting is a bit over the top (Robert Prosky, anyone??).
In the end I like the film for what it is: a piece of eighties entertainment from an up and coming film director, and one of my guilty pleasures.
I’m looking forward to the day the Director’s cut is available on DVD which will also be the same day that O. J. Simpson finds out who the real killer is…
Cry havoc, and let slip the throwers of flame!
The Keep (the film) - saynomore - 06-16-2010
I like the film. I love the book. I had my three younger brothers read the book, and when I heard M. Mann was making the movie, my brothers and I celebrated and followed the production. When the movie was released, we went to see it. It was great to see Rasalom and Glaeken, but we were ultimately disappointed with the book to film translation. That didn't turn us off to the rest of the book series leading up to Nightworld as my brothers and I read them all. Only my younger brother and I have read the Rj series as well as Paul's other books. My other brothers went the non-horror book route. As long as they read.... But I've followed Mann's other movies, some good, some not. I'm not holding my breath (anymore) for a dvd, director's cut or author's commentary either (although I would like a copy of Paul's cd version some day). But flame war?! This topic's too old. Let the younger posters try to restir the embers.
AC
P.S. Yawn.
The Keep (the film) - fpw - 06-16-2010
I agree that it's a beautifully shot example of modern expressionism. But it ain't my book. Dude, where's my book? (which is the subtitle of the commentary track by Schow, Winter, and myself -- melded to the film by the con organizers -- and debuting at Crypticon this weekend).
The Keep (the film) - cobalt - 06-16-2010
I'm one of the minority as well. I love The Keep movie. It lead me to the books. Yes....the book is 1000000000+ times better than the movie....but I know I like it. Some things......just are.
The Keep (the film) - Scott Miller - 06-16-2010
I think the only people who like the movie saw it before they read the book because it was horrible vice versa. It remains the most disappointing movie I've ever seen. I actually watched it not too long ago for the first time since I saw it in the theater and time didn't help. I'm glad you liked it enough to discover FPW though.
The Keep (the film) - Keith the Elder - 06-16-2010
Scott Miller Wrote:I think the only people who like the movie saw it before they read the book because it was horrible vice versa. It remains the most disappointing movie I've ever seen. I actually watched it not too long ago for the first time since I saw it in the theater and time didn't help. I'm glad you liked it enough to discover FPW though.
I wanted to see it when it was in the theaters, but I was sick that day. When I finally saw it on VHS, I was surprised that they left out the story and Glaeken had a last name (Los Biscuits or something like that). Because the soundtrack was excellent, it can be enjoyed as a really long trailer.
The Keep (the film) - The Mad American - 06-16-2010
cobalt79 Wrote:I'm one of the minority as well. I love The Keep movie. It lead me to the books. Yes....the book is 1000000000+ times better than the movie....but I know I like it. Some things......just are.
Pretty much the same for me. While I wouldn't go so far as to say I love the film, liking it and the concept so much led me to FPW's books. Which worked out pretty well for me.
I can totally understand the other side of that though like Scott said, if I had read the book before I saw the movie I would have a completely different opinion of it.
The Keep (the film) - Ken Valentine - 06-16-2010
Scott Miller Wrote:I think the only people who like the movie saw it before they read the book because it was horrible vice versa.I'm one of the vice versa's. I read the book first, so when I saw the movie I was immensely disappointed.
Ken V.
The Keep (the film) - Ken Valentine - 06-16-2010
Keith the Elder Wrote:When I finally saw it on VHS, I was surprised that they left out the story and Glaeken had a last name (Los Biscuits or something like that).Yeah, they gave glaken a last name and changed Magda's name to Anna.
Ken V.
The Keep (the film) - palsunstar - 06-18-2010
Ken Valentine Wrote:Yeah, they gave glaken a last name and changed Magda's name to Anna.
Actually...didn't they change it to Ava? I may be misremembering, though.
What the hell's wrong with the name Magda, anyway?
In any case, I watched the film before reading the novel. The Molasar costume was horrible...IMO.
The only part of the film (with the knowledge of retrospection, of course) that bore resemblance to the novel was the start of the film, when the Nazi's arrived at the Keep. There were other bits & pieces here & there, but otherwise the director did his own thing...and that was crap on the source material.