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Brokeback Mountain - NewYorkjoe - 01-18-2006
AsMoral Wrote:The book was in no way a political message and neither is the movie. Again, it's not even a cowboy/western movie. There is nothing in the film or short story that indicates it is a western. Yes, the men are ranch hands but it's their job in this movie, nothing more.
Ang Lee is not even American and he directed this film. He had no vested interest in making a political statement. I hate to tell you this Joe, but gay "cowboys" exist outside of the realm of the Villiage People. Here in Arkansas there are MANY gay people who own farms and ranches, who compete in rodeo and do on and so forth. They are both gay and a cowboy.
Sorry if 1 film has managed to decimate what you consider an American icon, but the film did no such thing. It is a LOVE story, not a western.
Perhaps you mean "denegrate?" To decimate cowboys, you would have to kill one out of every 10! ;-)
Please don't be naive! Hollywood is always using the medium to send political messages. Just look at Michael Moore and his undeserved Oscar for a documentary film that was a tapestry of ultra-left lies, innuendo, and propaganda. Hollywood becomes so impatient with the majority of Americans because we don't think their way and recognize that their popularity gives them greater knowledge and insight than the average American.
No doubt, there are gay cowboys, ranchers, roustabouts, and even rodeo clowns NOW! But, I submit that you would be hard-pressed to find them THEN! Ang Lee was paid to direct the movie, Larry McMurtry was paid to write the screenplay. Please don't pretend they worked for free to promote acceptance of the gay lifestyle out of altruism.
My mother was born in Jonesboro, Arkansas, and she left there at 14 headed east and north, first to Baltimore and then to Manhattan. Her youngest brother was gay and contracted HIV and then AIDS from his time on a prison chain gang (no joke). I have visited Arkansas and still have kin there. While there are many beautiful spots in Arkansas, my mother was overjoyed to shake that dust from her feet. She had to leave school after the 8th grade to help work the farm and had to educate herself through reading. I am lucky that she placed such a value on education that she sacrificed a great deal to keep me in private school and send me through college.
While I would not say that it is impossible for someone to achieve their full potential when starting from Arkansas, I would say that they probably have a longer road that is all uphill. Also, I would not be surprised if the average Arkansawyer is somewhat less tolerant of the gay lifestyle than the average New Yorker, not that I am denegrating Arkansas, but that may be the fact.
NewYorkjoe
Brokeback Mountain - jimbow8 - 01-18-2006
NewYorkjoe Wrote:No doubt, there are gay cowboys, ranchers, roustabouts, and even rodeo clowns NOW! But, I submit that you would be hard-pressed to find them THEN!I submit that you would merely be hard-pressed to find cowboys back THEN who ADMITTED to it. To claim that NONE were gay is being, as you would say, "naive."
NewYorkjoe
Brokeback Mountain - Maggers - 01-18-2006
NewYorkjoe Wrote:... Please don't pretend they worked for free to promote acceptance of the gay lifestyle out of altruism...Where on this thread has anyone mentioned payscales for movie directors and screenwriters? Pretend???
Brokeback Mountain - Tony H - 01-18-2006
NewYorkjoe Wrote:While I would not say that it is impossible for someone to achieve their full potential when starting from Arkansas, I would say that they probably have a longer road that is all uphill. Also, I would not be surprised if the average Arkansawyer is somewhat less tolerant of the gay lifestyle than the average New Yorker, not that I am denegrating Arkansas, but that may be the fact.
NewYorkjoe
Wow, from one assumption to another. I won't pretend Arkansas isn't a bit backwood, it depends on your location within the state. I won't even pretend that their general education from public schools is average. The state is piss-poor yes, they only recently added a 2nd lane to their interstate system. But there are some great schools here as well, we even have universities!
To top it all off there is a thriving gay community in Arkansas, a cultural district with galleries and theatres for perfroming arts.
The state is the buckle of the bible belt though and their tolerance is a bit on the low end of the spectrum. Because someone is from Arkansas doesn't make them less of a person and they will not have a hard time succeeding here or anywhere for that matter.
I would hope that this attack on Arkansas isn't stemming from my choice of words in the previous thread as opposed to your choice of verb.
Incidentally, New York isn't the hub of literacy and education either so be careful when casting stones. I can say this with some authority having visited the city many times. I am originally from Baltimore, having moved here only 3 years ago, so I am all to well of the cultural, educational and economic differences in Arkansas versus a thriving metropolis.
And I love the cute way you refer to the Arkansans as Arkansawyers, an intentional slap in the face. After all, we are all straw hat wearing, barefoot, pipe-smoking racoon huntin', cat-skinnin' rednecks.
Be less gung ho about New York, I know you love the city, but man makes the town, the town doesn't make the man.
Brokeback Mountain - jimbow8 - 01-18-2006
Maggers Wrote:I'll bet it was in the contract..... You will write this screenplay with the purposeful intention of promoting the acceptance of the gay lifestyle and denigration of the cowboy mythos.NewYorkjoe Wrote:Please don't pretend they worked for free to promote acceptance of the gay lifestyle out of altruism.Where on this thread has anyone mentioned payscales for movie directors and screenwriters? Pretend???
NewYorkjoe
Please!! What's wrong with making money? I thought Capitalism was the ultimate goal. Did the producers, screenwriters, etc. who worked on Passion of the Christ, or Chronicles of Narnia, or ANY other mainstream film do it for free? Why should McMurtry?
:p
Brokeback Mountain - jimbow8 - 01-18-2006
AsMoral Wrote:Wow, from one assumption to another. I won't pretend Arkansas isn't a bit backwood, it depends on your location within the state. I won't even pretend that their general education from public schools is average. The state is piss-poor yes, they only recently added a 2nd lane to their interstate system. But there are some great schools here as well, we even have universities!But universities are havens for the "intellectual elite." (aka LIBERALS)
![[Image: n1qshok.gif]](http://www.smileyville.com/images/shocked/n1qshok.gif)
Brokeback Mountain - Tony H - 01-18-2006
jimbow8 Wrote:But universities are havens for the intellectual elite. (aka LIBERALS)
I am too non-conformist to be an elite.
Brokeback Mountain - Marc - 01-18-2006
jimbow8 Wrote:Did the producers, screenwriters, etc. who worked on Passion of the Christ, or Chronicles of Narnia, or ANY other mainstream film do it for free?
Interesting you chose two films that have strong Catholic messages in them. I wonder if these films bothered NYJoe as much as Brokeback Mountain did for their "in your face" message?
Brokeback Mountain - jimbow8 - 01-18-2006
Marc B. Wrote:Interesting you chose two films that have strong Catholic messages in them. I wonder if these films bothered NYJoe as much as Brokeback Mountain did for their "in your face" message?No coincidence. I wonder if "they" have a problem with Hollywood pushing any message or just one that he disagrees with. It's not as if Hollywood hasn't produced MANY religiously themed movies.
Brokeback Mountain - Maggers - 01-18-2006
Jim, I just noticed your new signature. What does "out" mean?