+- RepairmanJack.com Forums (https://repairmanjack.com/forum)
+-- Forum: F. Paul Wilson Related (https://repairmanjack.com/forum/forum-8.html)
+--- Forum: F. Paul Wilson Main Forum (https://repairmanjack.com/forum/forum-3.html)
+--- Thread: Black Wind (/thread-92.html)
Black Wind - Kevin Miles - 05-10-2004
I recently finished reading Black Wind for the 3rd time. It is by far one of my favorite books. After finishing it this last time, a couple of questions lingered in my head. I don't really know much about WWII history. So, I figured the best way to find out is just ask on this forum for there seems to be a fountain of information here.
I know that FPW does a lot of research for all of his books. Particularly in Black Wind, citing many books in the Bib in the back. But I was wondering how much of the events pertaining to WWII, specifically the actions of the US Government, was fact or fiction? Did the US really break the Japanese code so long before Pearl Harbor? As the book states, did the US Government know of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and even encourage it? Knowing that an attack on America was the only way to get the country to go to war? I was just wondering if this was just fiction for the story or there was truth to it? It just makes too much sense it's scary!
-Kevin
Black Wind - fpw - 05-10-2004
Kevin Miles Wrote:Did the US really break the Japanese code so long before Pearl Harbor?
Absolutely.
Quote:As the book states, did the US Government know of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and even encourage it?
To my knowledge there's no smoking gun, but there's tons -- tons -- of circumstantial evidence. All the circumstantial evidence in BW is verifiable.
My belief is they knew Japan was going to attack but never dreamed they'd suffer the losses they did. Yes, FDR wanted us in the war; no, he didn't want to cripple our Pacific fleet to get in.
Black Wind - Ken Valentine - 05-11-2004
Kevin Miles Wrote:Did the US really break the Japanese code so long before Pearl Harbor?
The Japanese diplomatic code, called "Purple," Was broken at least six months before Pearl Harbor.
Quote:As the book states, did the US Government know of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and even encourage it?
Sources I have read claim that the attack was expected a week earlier.
For a long time FDR had been trying to get Germany to declare war against the United States. When that failed, he started working on the Japanese. Personally, I can think of no other reason to move the headquarters of the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Hawaii than to make it a simultaneous threat, and attractive target. Don't forget that the Carrier Fleet was suddenly called out on "maneuvers," and all that remained in port were our aging battleships, cruisers, and destroyers.
Eleanor Roosevelt went in to see FDR immediately after he was told of the attack on Pearl. In one of her books, (I don't remember the name of it off hand) she described him as being "more serene than I have seen him in a long time."
Quote:Knowing that an attack on America was the only way to get the country to go to war? I was just wondering if this was just fiction for the story or there was truth to it? It just makes too much sense it's scary!
-Kevin
There are a lot of books that deal with this subject. One of the best is; How The Far East Was Lost: American Foreign Policy And The Creation Of Communist China, 1939 - 1945, by Anthony Kubek. Unfortunately it has been out of print since the '60's. It deals with a lot more than just Pearl Harbor as the name implies, but it does go into the attack rather deeply. Another more recent book is, Day Of Deceit, The Truth About FDR And Pearl Harbor, by Robert B. Stinnett. It was published in 2000, so it is still available, and it's a real eye-opener. The author spent many years researching Pearl Harbor using documents he was able to get through the Freedom Of Information Act.
Another very enlightening book is The New Dealers War -- F.D.R. And The War Within World War II, by Thomas Fleming.
By getting the U.S. into war, FDR was able to get his name written in the history books as a "War President," rather than as the guy who put the "Great" in The Great Depression. (But That's just my evaluation.)
Ken V.
Black Wind - Marc - 05-11-2004
fpw Wrote:My belief is they knew Japan was going to attack but never dreamed they'd suffer the losses they did. Yes, FDR wanted us in the war; no, he didn't want to cripple our Pacific fleet to get in.[/SIZE]
You'd think we'd learn from our mistakes.
Black Wind - Ken Valentine - 05-11-2004
Marc B. Wrote:You'd think we'd learn from our mistakes.
Ayn Rand said it best, "The most amazing fact in all of history, is that people don't learn from it."
Ken V.
Black Wind - Bluesman Mike Lindner - 05-16-2004
Ken Valentine Wrote:Ayn Rand said it best, "The most amazing fact in all of history, is that people don't learn from it."
Ken V.
Robert Heinlein pointed out a big part of the problem: we just don't live long enough.
Black Wind - Biggles - 05-16-2004
Kevin Miles Wrote:I recently finished reading Black Wind for the 3rd time. It is by far one of my favorite books. After finishing it this last time, a couple of questions lingered in my head. I don't really know much about WWII history. So, I figured the best way to find out is just ask on this forum for there seems to be a fountain of information here.
I know that FPW does a lot of research for all of his books. Particularly in Black Wind, citing many books in the Bib in the back. But I was wondering how much of the events pertaining to WWII, specifically the actions of the US Government, was fact or fiction? Did the US really break the Japanese code so long before Pearl Harbor? As the book states, did the US Government know of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and even encourage it? Knowing that an attack on America was the only way to get the country to go to war? I was just wondering if this was just fiction for the story or there was truth to it? It just makes too much sense it's scary!
-Kevin
It's all true. FDR provoked the Japanese into attacking, then used General Short and Admiral Kimmel as scapegoats for the deaths of US personnel that FDR caused. The Japanese code intercepts (which were decoded almost immediately upon receipt) pointed unerringly at Pearl as being the target.
Black Wind - Bluesman Mike Lindner - 05-17-2004
Biggles Wrote:It's all true. FDR provoked the Japanese into attacking, then used General Short and Admiral Kimmel as scapegoats for the deaths of US personnel that FDR caused. The Japanese code intercepts (which were decoded almost immediately upon receipt) pointed unerringly at Pearl as being the target.
We started this discussion on the old board. FDR did cut off exports of American strategic materials (oil, most importantly) to the invaders of China, then a traditional friend of the USA. That's provoking an attack? How about the subsequent Japanese rampage throughout the South Pacific? Was that improvised, or was it carefully thought-out long beforehand?
Black Wind - Ken Valentine - 05-17-2004
Bluesman Mike Lindner Wrote:Robert Heinlein pointed out a big part of the problem: we just don't live long enough.
He also said something else that was pretty true-to-fact:
"The generation that ignores its history has no past . . . and no future."
The Notebooks Of Lazarus Long
Ken V.
Black Wind - Biggles - 05-18-2004
Bluesman Mike Lindner Wrote:We started this discussion on the old board. FDR did cut off exports of American strategic materials (oil, most importantly) to the invaders of China, then a traditional friend of the USA. That's provoking an attack? How about the subsequent Japanese rampage throughout the South Pacific? Was that improvised, or was it carefully thought-out long beforehand?
I never said Japan was peace-loving in that era. Quite the contrary, they were militaristic and imperialistic. Still, as "Day of Deceit" documents, FDR was given a blueprint (8 steps, was it?) for prompting Japan to attack our soil. FDR knew that a majority of Congress did not want us fighting Europe's wars, or Asia's. We had to be attacked to go to war (Ft. Sumter again).
LBJ used the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" the same way.
BTW,
to stir up a hornets' nest: Do mustard gas (found a couple weeks ago) and Sarin (found in the last couple days) count as Weapons of Mass Destruction?