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+--- Thread: Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? (/thread-3413.html)
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - fpw - 05-08-2009
Joe Konrath first mentioned it last year, and I heard it again recently at Romantic Times. So I looked it up.
John Clute says: "UFs are normally texts where fantasy and the mundane world interact, intersect and interweave throughout a tale which is significantly about a real city."
Well, that would certainly fit The Tomb: mythological Hindu demons transported from India to NYC to fulfill a curse/vow, ancient magic necklaces with healing powers that allow two characters to live indefinitely. They intersect and interweave with Manhattan and with Jack who is the ghost in the city's urban machinery.
The first recognized urban fantasies are either Faerie by Ray Feist or War for the Oaks by Emma bull, both published after The Tomb.
So, yes, there's a case to be made but I'm not entirely comfortable with it.
What do you folks think?
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - tenebroust - 05-08-2009
Personally I think that The Tomb would qualify under the criteria. However I think the term "fantasy" has a certain connotation which is not generally supported by your writing. It would qualify as fantasy according to definition but is much more fitting within the horror genre. When I think of fantasy I think of Elves and Faeries and such. There is nothing wrong with that and there is certainly an overlap between the two genres as the Lord of the Rings movies show very well. In short I'd prefer Urban Horror over Urban Fantasy.
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - Scott Miller - 05-08-2009
tenebroust Wrote:Personally I think that The Tomb would qualify under the criteria. However I think the term "fantasy" has a certain connotation which is not generally supported by your writing. It would qualify as fantasy according to definition but is much more fitting within the horror genre.
I agree with your assessment.
As for the first urban fantasy I'd say Moonheart by Charles De Lint, which was published in 1984(not sure if it beat The Tomb to the stands though), predates both of Konrath's suggestions and it is one of the best.
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - webby - 05-08-2009
Scott Miller Wrote:I agree with your assessment.
Also.
Otherwise, wouldn't some of the classic gothic horror novels (Dracula, Frankentein, etc.) qualify as Urban Fantasy? Didn't at least part of Dracula take place in London? :dontknow:
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - cobalt - 05-08-2009
Ditto on that agreement. The Tomb is a Modern Urban Fantasy. I like the sound of it as well.
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - Wapitikev - 05-08-2009
cobalt79 Wrote:Ditto on that agreement. The Tomb is a Modern Urban Fantasy. I like the sound of it as well.So the Tomb is MUF?
Then Dracula and some of Lovecraft's work (Shadow over Innsmouth springs to mind) would be Classic Urban Fantasy (CUF)?
An interesting debate. I'm interested in learning more.
-Wapitikev
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - fpw - 05-08-2009
I always thought of The Tomb as a mix of urban noir and horror, but the supernatural, mythological nature of the rakoshi and the necklaces muddy the water.
Do the city and the fantasy world have to coexist? Is that the defining aspect of UF?
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - Wapitikev - 05-08-2009
fpw Wrote:I always thought of The Tomb as a mix of urban noir and horror, but the supernatural, mythological nature of the rakoshi and the necklaces muddy the water.From EVERYONE's favourite authoritative source, Wikipedia, the Urban Fantasy entry states:
Do the city and the fantasy world have to coexist? Is that the defining aspect of UF?
"The modern urban fantasy protagonist faces extraordinary circumstances as plots unfold in either open (where magic or paranormal events are commonly accepted to exist) or closed (where magical powers or creatures are concealed) worlds."
The Tomb definitely falls in the latter category...with emphasis on the horrific, lovecraftian-esque aspect of the supernatural.
Even more interested, now.
-Wapitikev
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - cobalt - 05-08-2009
Now don't just listen to Wikipedia...lol
I like the MUF and CUF descriptors Wap.
Is THE TOMB the first urban fantasy? - Srem - 05-08-2009
Quote:"The modern urban fantasy protagonist faces extraordinary circumstances as plots unfold in either open (where magic or paranormal events are commonly accepted to exist) or closed (where magical powers or creatures are concealed) worlds."
This is what I like so much about the RJ novels, which take the mundane of everyday life and throw in a lonewolf hero of sorts (Jack), the underlying supernatural aspect of good vs. evil, as well as a third, relatively nuetral antagonist, and mix it all up into one gigantic festive melting-pot.
I can read about what most mainstream authors write about these days in the newspaper, or watch it on CSI and Law & Order, it seems.