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The Tillman Story - saynomore - 09-13-2010
Pat Tillman was a star football player who joined the military and was killed in action. As we learned later, he was killed by friendly fire. This documentary movie is the story of how the Tillman family was lied to about Pat's death at the hands of his own platoon: there was no enemy fire. The reason the military lied was to make a hero out of the NFL star as a recruitment tool, a propaganda campaign--that worked.
To this day, Pat Tillman is still considered a hero. His college football jersey number was retired, his NFL number is now part of the stadium, and they are still making statues of the man. That's what got the family mad. They forgot the man. They turned Pat into a myth and the man disappeared into the myth.
The Tillman mom took her case against the military, dragging four generals and the former Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, before a congressional investigational committee, to no avail. She never learned how her son died or who shot her son dead. Before Congress, the mom tells Waxman that the military took her son and turned his death into a John Wayne movie. Little did she know how true her words were: ironically, that movie would be The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance. In the movie, John Wayne kills the bad guy but James Stewart takes credit. When Stewart tries to set the record straight with the Press about the death of Vallance, the Press refuses to tell the true story, saying that the Myth has overtaken the Man, that the public would always believe the killer of the bad guy was Stewart, no matter how much the truth was yelled at them. Once the public has their hero, they don't let go.
With our soldiers abroad fighting, we needed a hero and Pat Tillman was conveniently available. We can fault the military and the government all we want, but sometimes the Myth overtakes the Man. Sadly, this was one of those occasions.
AC
P.S. Till I saw this movie today, I still believed that Tillman joined the Rangers out of a patriotic response to the 9/11 attack. I didn't realize that was part of the myth as the "real" Tillman, we learn in the film, believed the action against Iraq was "illegal" and "bullshit." Some hero, huh? Yeah, just not the one they fed us.
The Tillman Story - GeraldRice - 09-13-2010
Do we know why he enlisted then?
The Tillman Story - Sigokat - 09-13-2010
saynomore Wrote:P.S. Till I saw this movie today, I still believed that Tillman joined the Rangers out of a patriotic response to the 9/11 attack. I didn't realize that was part of the myth as the "real" Tillman, we learn in the film, believed the action against Iraq was "illegal" and "bullshit." Some hero, huh? Yeah, just not the one they fed us.
Is Pat Tillman on film saying these things or is it his family saying he believed these things? I'd like to know, but refuse to see this movie.
As a Soldier, I find the exploitation of this man (as well as others) for propaganda and personal vendetta reasons to be sickening. What about the other 4,000+ soldiers that have fought and died in Iraq and Afghanistan? What the fuck are we? Nothing, since we weren't NFL stars.
I can only imagine this movie is more liberal propaganda.
I wanted to add this as well...I am not disrespecting Pat Tillman and his sacrifice. But I have the same amount of respect for him that I do for any other person that joins the military. In my eyes, Pat Tillman is no different than any other man or woman that joins, but because he was an NFL player he is being held at some higher level than the rest of those that serve and die. I don't agree with it at all, but maybe I'm biased because of my experiences and seeing good Americans killed in these wars and no one cares about them.
The Tillman Story - The Mad American - 09-13-2010
sigokat Wrote:I wanted to add this as well...I am not disrespecting Pat Tillman and his sacrifice. But I have the same amount of respect for him that I do for any other person that joins the military. In my eyes, Pat Tillman is no different than any other man or woman that joins, but because he was an NFL player he is being held at some higher level than the rest of those that serve and die. I don't agree with it at all, but maybe I'm biased because of my experiences and seeing good Americans killed in these wars and no one cares about them.
From what little I know about Tillman I think he would have agreed 100% with your statement here. While he was alive he refused to be exploited for any of this stuff. He refused to do interviews or be treated any differently than any other soldier. He refused to be treated or thought of differently while he was alive, it is a shame that after his death people are trying to do to him what he did not want to happen and did not allow to happen to him because of where he came from.
The Tillman Story - saynomore - 09-13-2010
sigokat Wrote:Is Pat Tillman on film saying these things or is it his family saying he believed these things? I'd like to know, but refuse to see this movie.
As a Soldier, I find the exploitation of this man (as well as others) for propaganda and personal vendetta reasons to be sickening. What about the other 4,000+ soldiers that have fought and died in Iraq and Afghanistan? What the fuck are we? Nothing, since we weren't NFL stars.
I can only imagine this movie is more liberal propaganda.
I wanted to add this as well...I am not disrespecting Pat Tillman and his sacrifice. But I have the same amount of respect for him that I do for any other person that joins the military. In my eyes, Pat Tillman is no different than any other man or woman that joins, but because he was an NFL player he is being held at some higher level than the rest of those that serve and die. I don't agree with it at all, but maybe I'm biased because of my experiences and seeing good Americans killed in these wars and no one cares about them.
Tillman family made this movie. They are Republicans. I used quotation marks to mark Tillman's own words, some taken from interviews and letters he wrote home to his wife. When Pat Tillman signed up, he never told anyone why he joined because he didn't want his NFL status to follow him. But as soon as he joined Rumsfeld sent him a personal letter welcoming him to the military. How many soldiers get a letter from the Sec of Defense?! The movie .leans toward showing Tillman as an everyman as a way to demythify him.
And yes, I took this movie with a grain of salt. The Tillman family wanted to point a finger at the Bush Administration, so they did have an agenda. But just as the Fire Fighters and Police Officers became heroes on 9/11, in similar fashion so too was Pat Tillman made a hero. He was a sarcastic foul-mouthed young man who was killed by fratricide. That's the message of the family to those who see him as a "hero."
AC
P.S. Tillman specifically stated on his application that should he die, he did not want a military funeral. The military ignored this and proceeded with the funeral. Luckily, Tillman send a copy of his application to his wife to make sure his wishes were followed. The military continued to bully the Tillman family for a funeral but they did not relent. Tillman was an atheist who didn't want anything to do with the military after his three year stint; even in death, he didn't want the military involved. But to this day, they still are.
The Tillman Story - jimbow8 - 09-15-2010
saynomore Wrote:ACCoincidentally, I happen to be reading Tillman's mother's book right now. Either the documentary mislead you or you just got this wrong. Pat DID join out of a patriotic response to 9/11. I don't know why you think he didn't or why you think his statements contradict that. He joined to fight in Afghanistan. It was after he joined that the US invaded Iraq. He fought in Iraq, nonetheless, and was later redeployed to Afghanistan where he was then killed.
P.S. Till I saw this movie today, I still believed that Tillman joined the Rangers out of a patriotic response to the 9/11 attack. I didn't realize that was part of the myth as the "real" Tillman, we learn in the film, believed the action against Iraq was "illegal" and "bullshit." Some hero, huh? Yeah, just not the one they fed us.
saynomore Wrote:Tillman family made this movie.What does this mean, specifically, because some of your statements seem to contradict his mother's story/recollections.
Quote:They are Republicans.Does the documentary make this claim? Do the Tillmans specifically state this? Again, the book (and I'm not done with it, so it may be discussed later) is so far very apolitical; politics has been mentioned VERY little, hardly at all. It mentions the family's long history of military service; that Pat and his brother Kevin had been discussing joining from the time of the attacks until they joined and that their younger brother Kevin was very much opposed to them joining; and it later mentions how the family discussed their opinions on invading Iraq and were against it.
Quote:And yes, I took this movie with a grain of salt. The Tillman family wanted to point a finger at the Bush Administration, so they did have an agenda.Again, I didn't get this at all. They did oppose the invasion of Iraq, but I haven't gotten any sense of animosity toward the Bush admin .... well, not until they were consistently and repeatedly lied to about the circumstances.
I don't know if these facts were presented THAT much differently in the documentary than they were in the book or if we just have a different interpretation.
The Mad American Wrote:From what little I know about Tillman I think he would have agreed 100% with your statement here. While he was alive he refused to be exploited for any of this stuff. He refused to do interviews or be treated any differently than any other soldier. He refused to be treated or thought of differently while he was alive, it is a shame that after his death people are trying to do to him what he did not want to happen and did not allow to happen to him because of where he came from.Yes.
The Tillman Story - saynomore - 09-15-2010
jimbow8 Wrote:Coincidentally, I happen to be reading Tillman's mother's book right now. Either the documentary mislead you or you just got this wrong. Pat DID join out of a patriotic response to 9/11. I don't know why you think he didn't or why you think his statements contradict that. He joined to fight in Afghanistan. It was after he joined that the US invaded Iraq. He fought in Iraq, nonetheless, and was later redeployed to Afghanistan where he was then killed.
What does this mean, specifically, because some of your statements seem to contradict his mother's story/recollections.
Does the documentary make this claim? Do the Tillmans specifically state this? Again, the book (and I'm not done with it, so it may be discussed later) is so far very apolitical; politics has been mentioned VERY little, hardly at all. It mentions the family's long history of military service; that Pat and his brother Kevin had been discussing joining from the time of the attacks until they joined and that their younger brother Kevin was very much opposed to them joining; and it later mentions how the family discussed their opinions on invading Iraq and were against it.
Again, I didn't get this at all. They did oppose the invasion of Iraq, but I haven't gotten any sense of animosity toward the Bush admin .... well, not until they were consistently and repeatedly lied to about the circumstances.
I don't know if these facts were presented THAT much differently in the documentary than they were in the book or if we just have a different interpretation.
Yes.
Sorry Jim, if my summary of the movie is confusing. I was not sermonizing. I really don't care one way or the other about Tillman. It was just a movie.
To your question however: The players on Tillman's football team were interviewed the day after 9/11. He gave a politically correct response to how he felt about the terrorist attack. This response was later used to explain why he joined the service. He never said why he joined. In the movie his mom says that her dad and uncles all served in the military and that maybe Pat thought that he should follow family tradition and joined. Tie this assumption to the response he made the day after 9/11 and you have a "reason" for his joining. But nowhere on record is there any response from Pat to the question, Why did you join the military?
And I haven't nor would I ever read the mom's book about Tillman. She said at the end of the movie that all she wanted was closure. Pat's younger brother summed it up best at Pat's funeral services; he said, Pat's dead. He's in the ground. He didn't believe in a fantasy Heaven or anything like that. He's dead. [my paraprhase]. Asked later if he regretted what he said at the funeral, he said he did not, that it had to be said, that "they" shouldn't make a false hero of Pat. Let him rest in peace.
Which is what I will now do.
AC