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+--- Thread: Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! (/thread-952.html)
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - dejo - 05-27-2005
Blake Wrote:Not that it matters all that much but... I said "smaller," not small, and Lucas doesn't make films in Hollywood anyway. He distances himself from Hollywood, both literally and figuratively.
For example (from IMDB):
Gary Oldman had agreed to be the voice of General Grievous, but pulled out of the film because it was being made using actors who are not part of the Screen Actor's Guild, of which Oldman is a member.
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - dejo - 05-27-2005
Blake Wrote:No, as I said above, none of the Jedi knew how to retain their consciousness at death before Qui-Gon. He then teaches Yoda and Obi-Wan to take the concept even further.
So, if Qui-Gon teaches Obi-Wan and Yoda how to retain their consciousness and even to make that consciousness visible (like in ROTJ), who teaches Anakin this skill, since he appears alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end of ROTJ?
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - Blake - 05-27-2005
dejo Wrote:So, if Qui-Gon teaches Obi-Wan and Yoda how to retain their consciousness and even to make that consciousness visible (like in ROTJ), who teaches Anakin this skill, since he appears alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end of ROTJ?
I think Anakin gets a pass as the Chosen One. Also, Qui-Gon says in the missing scene that the "ghost" state is reached through compassion. Since Anakin's death is the result of self-sacrifice for the love of his child, that may be what kicks him over the edge (along with his Chosen One Mojo). Lastly, in the DVD commentary track for Return of the Jedi, I believe George Lucas implies that Yoda and Obi-Wan essentially help him do it. I'd have to go back and listen again, though.
Note, too, that this explanation means Anakin's body would have to disappear off-screen after he dies, and Luke just burns the suit at the end.
Blake
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - Blake - 05-27-2005
I thought of another little plot hole (maybe) with regard to the original trilogy. In Return of the Jedi, after Luke asks Vader to come away with him, Vader says, "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." But is there anywhere in Revenge of the Sith where Obi-Wan really seems to think Anakin can come back?
Blake
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - jimbow8 - 05-27-2005
Blake Wrote:I thought of another little plot hole (maybe) with regard to the original trilogy. In Return of the Jedi, after Luke asks Vader to come away with him, Vader says, "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." But is there anywhere in Revenge of the Sith where Obi-Wan really seems to think Anakin can come back?Padme's dying words to Obi-Wan are that Anakin still has good in him (don't remember precise wording).
Blake
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - Marc - 05-27-2005
Blake Wrote:Note, too, that this explanation means Anakin's body would have to disappear off-screen after he dies, and Luke just burns the suit at the end.
Why's this? Qui-Gon never disappeared before being cremated yet becomes a "ghostly" figure (not one we see in any of the films, but still).
And, come to think of it, I'm surprised Lucas didn't include Qui-Gon in ROTJ at the end like Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin.
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - Marc - 05-27-2005
jimbow8 Wrote:Padme's dying words to Obi-Wan are that Anakin still has good in him (don't remember precise wording).
"Anakin... there's still... good..."
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - jimbow8 - 05-27-2005
Marc B. Wrote:Why's this? Qui-Gon never disappeared before being cremated yet becomes a "ghostly" figure (not one we see in any of the films, but still).It is speculated that it is because Qui-Gon doesn't disappear that his body cannot become a "ghostly apparition," only his consciousness. He must perfect and teach that to Yoda and Obi-wan. They are the first ones to be able to do it.
And, come to think of it, I'm surprised Lucas didn't include Qui-Gon in ROTJ at the end like Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin.
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - Marc - 05-27-2005
jimbow8 Wrote:It is speculated that it is because Qui-Gon doesn't disappear that his body cannot become a "ghostly apparition," only his consciousness. He must perfect and teach that to Yoda and Obi-wan. They are the first ones to be able to do it.
But if the deleted scene is as described Qui-Gon can visit as a ghostly apparition.
Revenge of the Sith WITH SPOILERS!! - Blake - 05-27-2005
Marc B. Wrote:But if the deleted scene is as described Qui-Gon can visit as a ghostly apparition.
It doesn't say that at all. It's a voiceover; that's what the "(V.O.)" means. You were never going to see Qui-Gon. And again, the key line is "Perhaps in time, even your physical self." Qui-Gon didn't learn to take his physical self with him, so we only hear him; we don't see him.
Lucas has been quoted somewhere as saying that Anakin's body disappeared off-screen at death, but I'll have to dig around to find it now....
jimbow8 Wrote:Padme's dying words to Obi-Wan are that Anakin still has good in him
Yes, but how does Vader know that?
Blake