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LOST: The Spoiler Edition - DogWoman - 04-27-2008
fpw Wrote:[SIZE="3"]One of the biggest surprises was Ben's physical prowess. He's always played the dweeb who uses manipulation rather than force, but the way he took those two Islamics down - wow. [/SIZE]
Yeah...my instant reaction to that was BEN ROCKS! which was something I'd never have thought I'd say in a million years. He's definitely becoming more and more of a heroic character.
*sob* I miss my TiVO. Regular DVRs are so crappy by comparison.
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - jimbow8 - 04-27-2008
Marc B. Wrote:Possibly, but then why didn't Whitmore give his men a heads-up on the thing?Maybe the "smoke monster" has only existed since Ben took over, so Widmore doesn't know it exists .... but Ben still doesn't know WHAT it is .....
Quote:While it's hard to believe there gone I loved how quickly all three were taken down. No flashbacks, no nothing. Just BAM! Done. Much more shocking than the slow episode buildup to the character death they usually do... one that isn't all that surprising because of the character centered flashbacks in those episodes.Agreed. It adds a sense of gritty realism and actual danger to the show, instead of automatically thinking "so-and-so can't die; (s)he is a main character." Which, frankly, I think was much needed after watching three "nobody" survivors get shot while Sawyer is hiding behind a picket fence, a swingset, and a barbecue grill. LOL :p
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - Maggers - 04-27-2008
DogWoman Wrote:...BEN ROCKS! ... He's definitely becoming more and more of a heroic character.
I'd say we are seeing a more macho side of Ben. Up till now his great strength has been his mind, and his ability to outwit anyone. Now he's showing he can hold his own in a fight and then some.
But heroic? No way. Heroes care about others, put others first. Ben is out for Ben.
Until we see what really motivates Ben, what is underneath all the plotting, planning, manipulating, conniving, lying, cheating, etc., until we know the real reason why Ben does what he does, I can't call him heroic. It is entirely possible that his motivation will be something other than himself, but for now, that's all we know.
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - Maggers - 04-27-2008
Marc B. Wrote:While it's hard to believe there gone I loved how quickly all three were taken down. No flashbacks, no nothing. Just BAM! Done. Much more shocking than the slow episode buildup to the character death they usually do... one that isn't all that surprising because of the character centered flashbacks in those episodes.In one of the podcasts, the writers said there may be a Danielle flashback so we'd know why she shot her crew and what the hell happened to Montand's arm. They definitely said that just because someone dies doesn't mean we won't see them again, and we've seen evidence of that already.
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - Maggers - 04-27-2008
jimbow8 Wrote:.. watching three "nobody" survivors get shot while Sawyer is hiding behind a picket fence, a swingset, and a barbecue grill. LOL :p
One of the "nobodies" is a woman (the one who always wore a purplish kerchief on her head) whom Evangeline Lilly mentioned in the Season 3 extra disc. Lilly said that woman was one of the favorite extras; the regular crew all liked her, and she had been with them from the beginning. Sure enough, if you watch the show from the beginning, you'll see that purplish headgear in the background quite a bit.
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - DogWoman - 04-27-2008
Maggers Wrote:But heroic? No way. Heroes care about others, put others first. Ben is out for Ben.
I might disagree with your definition of heroic, but yes, I may have been overstating. This was the first episode, however, where I found myself cheering for him more often than not. Part of it was the way he reacted when they killed Alex even though that wasn't "the rules"--he really did not expect that to happen.
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - DogWoman - 04-27-2008
jimbow8 Wrote:...while Sawyer is hiding behind a picket fence, a swingset, and a barbecue grill. LOL :p
That was kind of crazy
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - Maggers - 04-27-2008
DogWoman Wrote:I might disagree with your definition of heroic, ...I took that definition of "hero" from the writers of LOST, paraphrasing a bit. David Lindelof narrated a pre-finale of Season 3 episode which summarized what had gone on in Seasons 1, 2 and 3:
"True heroes are born out of moments, and the reality is that most of our characters are heroes. When the proverbial Others are coming, do you man up and take action? [COLOR="Red"]These guys act always act most nobly when they act in the spirit of the community. They protect each other....
[/COLOR]
"Ultimately it's about these people....This Island has given them an opportunity to completely reinvent themselves. And that change, for these characters, is really what the endgame of the show will be all about."
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - Maggers - 04-27-2008
jimbow8 Wrote:Maybe the "smoke monster" has only existed since Ben took over, so Widmore doesn't know it exists .... but Ben still doesn't know WHAT it is .....Given the ancient look of the door Ben opened in order to do whatever he had to do to contact the smoke monster, I'd be willing to bet that the smoke monster pre-dates the Others, pre-dates the Dharma Initiative, and maybe even pre-dates the 4-toed statue.
Thinking about it logically, that ancient door to ... whatever ... may have been created to contain or contact the smoke monster. If that's the case, who knows, the smoke monster may be the first inhabitant of the Island.
LOST: The Spoiler Edition - jimbow8 - 04-27-2008
Maggers Wrote:Given the ancient look of the door Ben opened in order to do whatever he had to do to contact the smoke monster, I'd be willing to bet that the smoke monster pre-dates the Others, pre-dates the Dharma Initiative, and maybe even pre-dates the 4-toed statue.
Thinking about it logically, that ancient door to ... whatever ... may have been created to contain or contact the smoke monster. If that's the case, who knows, the smoke monster may be the first inhabitant of the Island.
True, though I still can't see the markings on the door (I think I'd need a high def TV).
Maybe "exist" was the wrong word. Maybe they were unaware of its existence. Maybe Widmore/DHARMA/whoever was unaware that the smoke monster existed, and Ben was the first/most recent to discover it.
Also, another thing I wanted to address, because I'm not sure if I was aware of it (I don't remember Danielle explaining it, and I'll admit that I can't keep track of ALL of this stuff
), is referring to Alex as Ben's "daughter." Ben was not lying in order to deceive Keamy or minimalize Alex's importance when he said that Alex wasn't his daughter and that he had stolen her "from an insane woman." Alex is not his biological daughter. There's also an interesting theory about the inability to carry pregnancy past a point shortly into the third trimester: that since Ben's mother died at that point, the "problem" is some sort of manifestation by the island (or Jacob?) of Ben's birth. Maybe Ben's guilt or anger or whatever it is manifests in pregancies not being able to progress past that point. Do we know at exactly what point Ben was born and if it's the same as the "death threshold" in effect?