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Fahrenheit 9/11 - Richard Kendrick - 07-02-2004
Marc B. Wrote:My only comment on Moore's prior voters registration is that it was 1992. That's 11 years ago. And how many people remember to cancel their registration when they move? I've never done it as I'm sure most people haven't.
That wasn't the point of my post. It was to show that at one time he was registered as a Democrat and has since moved to another state which does not let you choose a party affiliation. It is clear what his party affiliation would be if he was in a state where you have the option.
I was more amused by the fact that Moore (according to the story) had not voted since 1991.
RIK
Fahrenheit 9/11 - Richard Kendrick - 07-02-2004
jimbow8 Wrote:What is this form you are showing us?
Well, to me it looks just like every voter registration card I've ever had to fill out.
RIK
Fahrenheit 9/11 - sublime1983 - 07-02-2004
jimbow8 Wrote:I totally agree with that. I guess the way that I am questioning it is this: At what point is omitting others' views lying and at what point is it just arguing your side of the debate/discussion.
And I agree. I totally HATE this argument.
My current favorite is regarding the Iraq prison (Abu Ghraib) scandals:
Me: "The abuses that took place are wrong (immoral)."
Them: "Saddam Hussein tortured people much worse: gas, rape, mutilation, etc."
As if that validates the torture in the Abu Ghraib prison and makes it OK!!!!
I see what you are saying but the way he does it wouldn't hold up anywhere. He says what the media and what the libs want him to say, so it goes free. Thats what upsets me is that he gets away with this and you compare our government to a computer salesman.
From the movie..."NARRATOR: Or was the war in Afghanistan really about something else? Perhaps the answer was in Houston, Texas. In 1997 while George W. Bush was Governor of Texas, a delegation of Taliban leaders from Afghanistan flew to Houston to meet with Unocal executives to discuss the building of a pipeline through Afghanistan bringing natural gas from the Caspian Sea. And who got a Caspian Sea drilling contract the same day Unocal signed the pipeline deal? A company headed by a man named Dick Cheney: Halliburton."
Now, wouldn't you think that from this, Bush was at the meeting and maybe asked for the meeting. He was a major part of this gathering. Well, in reality he had nothing to do with it besides being the governor of the state they were in. Unocal wanted the meeting and the got Okayed by Clinton's State Department. So, Bush had nothing to do with this. I'm not putting any blame on Clinton because I don't care that they had a meeting, but I am instead pointing out the truth that Moore fails to do.
Yes, it is a minipulation, but I would say that his minipulation is very different from not telling us what Dell has to offer. He is pointing fingers. He is telling us that Dell is a pill of dung and is a horrible computer. That is actually illegal.
BTW, Unocal has no intentions of building a pipeline through Afghanistan. Here is a link saying so. http://www.unocal.com/uclnews/98news/centgas.htm
The torture issue is a tough one. I think that it is part of war. The guy who was in the news a while back talking about how we had those laws so that our soldiers don't get hurt when they are captured is a little lacking in the head. Like the terrorist follow the laws put in place by the Geneva convention. Besides that, we use torture to get information. Now don't get me wrong, we don't go and cut of limbs and stuff like that, we use mental torture. Embarass a few radical Islamists and get some good information. When our nations security is at risk, you would rather these terrorist be treated fairly? That being said, I think torture is validated.
Fahrenheit 9/11 - sublime1983 - 07-02-2004
Marc B. Wrote:I suppose it depends on your point of view. Michael Moore uses manipulative truths (i.e. shows his point of view or chooses his wording to make his point known) while Bush flat out lies. I think it's a little different. If anything, the movie is highly entertaining.
On a side note, Moore isn't a Democrat. He's a liberal that hasn't endorsed Kerry, hates Bush, and wants the country back for the people.
Moore uses his "manipulative truths" to show that Bush is a "liar." He isn't. The reason you think so is because Moore tells you so. Remember, you just said that he manipulates the truth.
On a side note, Moore is a Commie. When you break down what he wants, he is right next to Thoreau. His views of the world are severely skewed.
At the end of my last semester of school, I got into a four hour political debate with my old Poly Sci teacher. We are not enemies by no means. He had his knee replaced and I was the only student that helped him out carrying stuff from class to class. But he, not unlike many other Moore followers, ignore fact sheets and take what he says as the word of God. There is nothing I can do to convince him or others differently, but I will try.
If I've come on strong on these posts, I'm sorry. I was just shocked to see that everyone here is anti-Bush and I got a little defensive.
Fahrenheit 9/11 - sublime1983 - 07-02-2004
remylass Wrote:Usually, I try to stay out of these discussions.
I have to completely agree with FPW. Michael Moore has even stated in interviews that he skews facts on purpose. He has stated that he isn’t even really making “documentaries”. I lost all interest in him after watching Bowling for Columbine. Many of the facts were so screwed up. So many people came forward after and said the film completely skirted around everything they were really saying. Moore has stated that he “assumes” his audience knows he is playing with words, and they shouldn’t take him so literally.
I won't even get into the way he portrayed Charlton Heston with his editing.
I had never heard him say that. I wonder how many people actually do take what he says in that way? I doubt too many of them do. Do you remember where you heard that? I would love to read that.
Fahrenheit 9/11 - sublime1983 - 07-02-2004
SDSwami Wrote:Personally, I've grown to hate politics completely. It's like watching a bunch of four year olds who sit there and point fingers at each other and cry about what the other person is doing. You hardly ever hear about what they are going to do to make things better for us, but instead you always hear about how evil the other person is.
A great story about this happened here in SD a couple years ago in the Republican primary for the govener's seat. At the start of the race it was considered a two man race with a few other candidates that no one even knew. During this race, it became very negative between those two. It basicly made you so sick of hearing the commercials on tv that you almost prefered to not even watch it. While those two sat there blasting away at each other, a third candidate started running ads about what he wanted to do for the state and never once pointed a finger at the other two. When the election came, that third candidate won it and then went on to win the general election and is now our current govenor.
Now we have another big election coming up this fall between Daschle and the Rep candidate, Thune. There are a lot of people here that are going to vote for Thune just because they don't want Daschle anymore even though he's in a position in DC that no one in SD has ever been in before. It bothers me that people are doing this, because I honestly feel (along with others I've talked to) that Thune is nothing but a puppet for Bush. The only times Bush or Cheney have made visits to the state have been to offer support for Thune. They put on a big show but you can see they honestly don't care about the state and the only reason they are here is because they want someone that they can control in congress.
Its funny because its true. But you do hear how people want to make things better (unless you are Kerry, he just tells you that he isn't George W. Bush) but it gets pushed out of the light because its bigger news to hear that so and so called so and so a liar.
How is that Gov doing in your opinion?
Maybe Thune is, but Daschle can't be the guy you are talking about that never pointed a finger. Thats all he has done since Bush has taken office. He is a major figure in all the problems that are going on. His constant DOTM has put a damper on things and nothing is getting done. I know he is going to get re-elected becuase, like you said, he is a major national figure, but I pray he doesn't.
Fahrenheit 9/11 - sublime1983 - 07-02-2004
fpw Wrote:Too bad that's not a ballot option. It would make for a true referendum. As it is, the only way you can express displeasure with all candidates is to stay home. Later on you're told, "If you didn't vote, you can't complain."
In an election between Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth, and Shub-Niggurath, I want the option to say No Thanks. Come up with a better slate, you morons.
Well, thats true...but you can still go and vote on everything else, like issues, and leave your presidential boxes blank.
Thats how it is in MD at least.
Fahrenheit 9/11 - sublime1983 - 07-02-2004
jimbow8 Wrote:What is this form you are showing us?
This looks like a registration to vote in a Primary. In Illinois (can't speak for other states) you must choose which Primary you are going to vote in. You are not allowed to vote in the Democratic AND Republican primary. You must choose one or the other by filling out a form. I voted in the Democratic primary this year because it is presumed that Bush will be the nominee for President for the Republican Party. By checking that Democrat box I am in NO WAY representing myself as a member of the Democratic Party. Also, Right to Life, Conservative and Liberal (choices listed on the form) are not political parties.
Also, the "Pleadge of Democratic Allegiance" probably does not refer to the Party but instead to the form of government which we supposedly have in this country (or at least what it is commonly refered to, which it isn't).
I know in MD that you don't have a yearly choice of whom you will vote for. You are a registered D or R and thats how it stays unless you go lengths to change it. But in VA, you can vote on both.
Fahrenheit 9/11 - sublime1983 - 07-02-2004
Marc B. Wrote:My only comment on Moore's prior voters registration is that it was 1992. That's 11 years ago. And how many people remember to cancel their registration when they move? I've never done it as I'm sure most people haven't.
Well, it is always an important move if you are into politics and care enough about them.
Fahrenheit 9/11 - Marc - 07-02-2004
sublime1983 Wrote:Moore uses his "manipulative truths" to show that Bush is a "liar." He isn't. The reason you think so is because Moore tells you so. Remember, you just said that he manipulates the truth.
I'm actually a little annoyed by that comment. I know Bush is a liar, not because Moore tells me, but because I actually read the news and from many different sources. I don't believe anything from any one individual.
Quote:If I've come on strong on these posts, I'm sorry. I was just shocked to see that everyone here is anti-Bush and I got a little defensive.
You're allowed to have your opinion as much as the rest of us. It's good to hear other peoples perspectives.