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+--- Thread: Question for the Hitmen (/thread-1038.html)
Question for the Hitmen - Biggles - 07-15-2005
NewYorkjoe Wrote:That said, Walther makes a P-22 (I have one) with a suppressor that is fitted on with an adaptor. I have seen/held a Ruger Mk. II with an integral, suppressed barrel. The Walther would be good for concealment, but I would prefer the Ruger for accuracy and more reliable cycling. It is so simple that very little can go wrong, but it is a pain to clean!
NewYorkjoe
Here's a review of the suppressed Walther P-22. Looks like it has reliability problems, probably from the greater difficulties of feed and extraction presented by rimfire rounds.
http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000238.shtml
Question for the Hitmen - Biggles - 07-23-2005
I just couldn't suppress the urge to take another shot at his topic. :o Here's a good, accurate article for you that seems to be right on target:
http://www.srtarms.com/selecting.htm
Question for the Hitmen - Ken Valentine - 07-14-2006
law dawg Wrote:Am I wrong, oh swami of all things pistol?
As wrong as wrong can be.
You wrote: "Since you are going to be supressing the shot it will, by definition, be slower ..."
It won't, unless it is intententionly slowed by the design of the silencer. It will NOT be slower "by definition."
The primary way to do this -- slow the velocity of the bullet -- is to extend the outer tube of the silencer back over the barrel, and cross-drill the barrel to lower the pressure behind the bullet before it reaches its otherwise maximum velocity. (Quickly bleed off the pressure.) This is generally done where the bullet will normally be supersonic and and it is desired that it be subsonic without having to make special ammunition.
Rubber wipes will also slow a bullet down very slightly, but not all silencers have rubber wipes. And the key words there are very slightly.
A non-wipe/non-cross-drilled silencer will actually very slightly increase the velocity of the bullet. (A very small but measureable amount.) The reason for this is that, under normal circumstances, the pressure driving the bullet is dissipated immediately upon the bullet leaving the barrel of the gun. With a silencer on the end of the barrel, the pressure is still contained by the silencer behind the bullet -- though the pressure quickly drops off as the bullet travels down the silencer.
Although much lower, the pressure is still there for a short time, but the friction between the barrel and the bullet is gone.
Ken V.
Question for the Hitmen - KRW - 07-14-2006
Ken Valentine Wrote:As wrong as wrong can be.
You wrote: "Since you are going to be supressing the shot it will, by definition, be slower ..."
It won't, unless it is intententionly slowed by the design of the silencer. It will NOT be slower "by definition."
The primary way to do this -- slow the velocity of the bullet -- is to extend the outer tube of the silencer back over the barrel, and cross-drill the barrel to lower the pressure behind the bullet before it reaches its otherwise maximum velocity. (Quickly bleed off the pressure.) This is generally done where the bullet will normally be supersonic and and it is desired that it be subsonic without having to make special ammunition.
Rubber wipes will also slow a bullet down very slightly, but not all silencers have rubber wipes. And the key words there are very slightly.
A non-wipe/non-cross-drilled silencer will actually very slightly increase the velocity of the bullet. (A very small but measureable amount.) The reason for this is that, under normal circumstances, the pressure driving the bullet is dissipated immediately upon the bullet leaving the barrel of the gun. With a silencer on the end of the barrel, the pressure is still contained by the silencer behind the bullet -- though the pressure quickly drops off as the bullet travels down the silencer.
Although much lower, the pressure is still there for a short time, but the friction between the barrel and the bullet is gone.
Ken V.
That makes a lot of sense. But is this at sea level? How does it compare in a dry climate, say like.... Brazil?
Ken
Question for the Hitmen - Ken Valentine - 07-14-2006
KRW Wrote:That makes a lot of sense. But is this at sea level? How does it compare in a dry climate, say like.... Brazil?
Seriously, altitude doesn't make a measurable difference. If there's 10,000 pounds per square inch of pressure behind the bullet, and the atmospheric pressure changes with altitude from 14.7 psi to 12 psi, what percentage of pressure differential would there be? 10,000 to 2.7.
Dry climate doesn't make any measurable difference either.
Ballistically, the only difference in bullet velocity would be because of temperature. A firearm and cartridge at 100 degrees will launch a projectile considerably faster than a firearm and cartridge at 0 degrees. A hot gun and cartridge will build higher pressures than a cold gun and cartridge. But this has no effect on silencers . . . or vise versa.
Ken V.
Question for the Hitmen - KRW - 07-14-2006
Ken Valentine Wrote:Seriously, altitude doesn't make a measurable difference. If there's 10,000 pounds per square inch of pressure behind the bullet, and the atmospheric pressure changes with altitude from 14.7 psi to 12 psi, what percentage of pressure differential would there be? 10,000 to 2.7.
Dry climate doesn't make any measurable difference either.
Ballistically, the only difference in bullet velocity would be because of temperature. A firearm and cartridge at 100 degrees will launch a projectile considerably faster than a firearm and cartridge at 0 degrees. A hot gun and cartridge will build higher pressures than a cold gun and cartridge. But this has no effect on silencers . . . or vise versa.
Ken V.
The only reason I ask is because they like to set land speed records on the salt flats in the desert. I'm sure alot of that has to do with the flat terrain, but I also thought it had to do with the drier air creating less resistance. But a bullet has very little resistance, would the drier air make any differance at all?
Question for the Hitmen - webby - 07-14-2006
Since this thread is up near the top and you all are the ones who'd appreciate this... look what hubby just gave me for our anniversary:
[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]
(Walther G22 - carbon fiber stock)
Now if the weather would only cool down enough so we could go out & play!
Question for the Hitmen - Ken Valentine - 07-14-2006
webby Wrote:Since this thread is up near the top and you all are the ones who'd appreciate this... look what hubby just gave me for our anniversary:
[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]
(Walther G22 - carbon fiber stock)
Now if the weather would only cool down enough so we could go out & play!
A .22 Long Rifle Bull-Pup. FUN! But be sure to wear ear plugs.
Years ago, I made a Bull-Pup out of a Ruger 10-22. The customer loved it, but with the action right next to his ear, it was a bit noisy.
Ken V.
Question for the Hitmen - Biggles - 07-15-2006
Ken Valentine Wrote:A .22 Long Rifle Bull-Pup. FUN! But be sure to wear ear plugs.
Years ago, I made a Bull-Pup out of a Ruger 10-22. The customer loved it, but with the action right next to his ear, it was a bit noisy.
Ken V.
I converted both a Ruger Mini-14 and a Marlin Camp Carbine into bull-pups years ago (using commercial conversion kits). I always wear ear protection, so no problems.
Question for the Hitmen - webby - 07-15-2006
Not to worry guys - I always have ear protection at the range, no matter what we're shooting.
My father-in-law, now in his early 70's, has a lot of hearing loss that is at least partly due to his years in the military and early days of being a private gun enthusiast, when only sissies used ear protectors.