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Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - luthie2 - 05-23-2006
cobalt79 Wrote:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just a feeling I had, I may have "read" more into this than was intended. Tom and Jack resemble each other. I kept looking for ways back from where Tom went. Like I didn't believe he really was gone. Now I know better, from the conversation with R at the end of the book. The hitman was to be in place before his target. But Jack showed up "early". Almost as if he wasn't the target. But now I know the "alarm" to take out Jack was just a ruse, as if it was known Jack would triumph over the hitman and then cancel his trip. At least that is how I see it, any thoughts?
*********Harbinger Spoiler Warning***********
This was my take on the story line with the Floridian yeniceri as well. R sent a false alarm, knowing fully well that Jack would be waiting for him. The assassin was meant to meet an untimely demise. Jack was meant to find the sunglasses and cyanide-filled bullets, put two and two together and make a beeline for home - just in time to suffer the loss of the ones that he loved most.
Interesting that R had become so powerful that he knew exactly where Jack was (and that he was heading to Europe) - even though Jack didn't know he was going to his father's house himself until the last minute himself.
-Luthie
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - webby - 05-23-2006
I'm a newbie to this board, but I've been a huge fan of RJ (and fpw in general) for a couple of years - I even got my best friend hooked
I finished Harbingers just over a week ago. It went way too fast, but it was outstanding! As soon as my friend gets my copy back to me, I'll have to read it again. Anyway, I have a couple of thought about it, if y'all don't mind.
luthie2 Wrote:When R was about to kill the Oculus, he said that his "masterpiece" was done 4 years ago and that he could never top that. I wonder what he was referring to. Danny Gordon?
Blake Wrote:I'm sure it is. The time is right since Reprisal spans about five years and ends a matter of months before Nightworld begins.
I agree that R was talking about Danny. It may have been R's "masterpiece", but it was most certainly fpw's...I'd go so far as to say it is a masterpiece of modern horror/suspense fiction, period. The scene in Reprisal when Danny's grave is opened is by far the SPOOKIEST thing I've ever read and I read a lot. Bravo fpw! I still get chills thinkng about it!
luthie2 Wrote:As for the Lady - My take was always that the Lady would be completely gone by the time Night World rolls around - although it saddens me to say so. I think that Opus Omega will destroy her.
I'm with the folks who are thinking the Lady is Mother Nature, or Mother Earth. I've been suspecting that for a while now, especially since each Lady Jack meets seems to represent a specific culture or region of the world. So I don't think she'll be gone in Nightworld - not completely.
My guess is that she will be very close to death, but only R's ultimate victory will truly destroy her. If you consider R (in Nightworld) to be the final "pillar" of the Opus Omega, then his success would be the end of the earth as we know it and the end of the Lady. Jack, Glaeken and the others will be saving her by defeating R.
At least that's how I'm hoping it goes. I also hope I didn't jinx it by putting the idea out there!
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - luthie2 - 05-23-2006
webby Wrote:I'm a newbie to this board, but I've been a huge fan of RJ (and fpw in general) for a couple of years - I even got my best friend hooked
Welcome, Webby!!
webby Wrote:I finished Harbingers just over a week ago. It went way too fast, but it was outstanding! As soon as my friend gets my copy back to me, I'll have to read it again. Anyway, I have a couple of thought about it, if y'all don't mind.
I agree that R was talking about Danny. It may have been R's "masterpiece", but it was most certainly fpw's...I'd go so far as to say it is a masterpiece of modern horror/suspense fiction, period. The scene in Reprisal when Danny's grave is opened is by far the SPOOKIEST thing I've ever read and I read a lot. Bravo fpw! I still get chills thinkng about it!
I'm with the folks who are thinking the Lady is Mother Nature, or Mother Earth. I've been suspecting that for a while now, especially since each Lady Jack meets seems to represent a specific culture or region of the world. So I don't think she'll be gone in Nightworld - not completely.
I sincerely hope you're right on that one. I really like her! And it's funny, I never thought about the Lady representing the various cultures of the world before.
webby Wrote:My guess is that she will be very close to death, but only R's ultimate victory will truly destroy her. If you consider R (in Nightworld) to be the final "pillar" of the Opus Omega, then his success would be the end of the earth as we know it and the end of the Lady. Jack, Glaeken and the others will be saving her by defeating R.
At least that's how I'm hoping it goes. I also hope I didn't jinx it by putting the idea out there!
Love the "Final pillar" theory. That makes a lot of sense.
It was so nice to hear from you!
-Luthie
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - luthie2 - 05-23-2006
KRW Wrote:I'm curious to the origins of these women. Are they from the same "Age" as Glaeken and Rasalom?
KRW
I was thinking about your question about whether the Lady was from the same age as Rasalom and Glaeken. Maybe the Lady actually preceded the arrival of the Ally and the Otherness. In that case, that would be yet another reason why she would resent their little ownership game.
-Luthie
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - webby - 05-23-2006
luthie2 Wrote:I was thinking about your question about whether the Lady was from the same age as Rasalom and Glaeken. Maybe the Lady actually preceded the arrival of the Ally and the Otherness. In that case, that would be yet another reason why she would resent their little ownership game.
-Luthie
I have to go along with the Lady preceding all others. I really like the theory of her being "Mother Earth", which would reinforce why she resents the whole struggle. She's a "mother" protecting her children....
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - KRW - 05-23-2006
luthie2 Wrote:I was thinking about your question about whether the Lady was from the same age as Rasalom and Glaeken. Maybe the Lady actually preceded the arrival of the Ally and the Otherness. In that case, that would be yet another reason why she would resent their little ownership game.
-Luthie
That all depends upon when the Ally and the Otherness started to consider us as a pretty piece of glass. Earth didn't start with life on it, and is life any value to them whatsoever? Maybe they liked us when we were still a molten mass establishing our orbit? This is fun, ain't it?
KRW
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - cobalt - 05-23-2006
webby Wrote:I have to go along with the Lady preceding all others. I really like the theory of her being "Mother Earth", which would reinforce why she resents the whole struggle. She's a "mother" protecting her children....Welcome Webby!
Good thought about the Mothers. I've always thought of them as protectors. They have pushed and guided Jack into situation after situation. Tom even saw one, although young, on the dock in Bermuda. She did try to warn him about his found treasure. The Mothers appear when a good force is needed to "help" the Ally and the Earth. Although the Ally is not doing Jack any favors, they did allow the mother to help Gia and Vicki. What a slap of reality when the poor baby could not be saved. The Ally had to teach Jack a lesson, but such a painful one! Damn Ally!!! So if Glaeken is the "sword", then Jack is the "spear" then HWMNBN might get a double whammy in the end. And remember, there are no more coincedences, Jack might be that proverbial thorn/spear in the side of ole R! Might help weaken him some! Give him some pain, and not let him feed! What's your opinion?
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - cobalt - 05-23-2006
KRW Wrote:That all depends upon when the Ally and the Otherness started to consider us as a pretty piece of glass. Earth didn't start with life on it, and is life any value to them whatsoever? Maybe they liked us when we were still a molten mass establishing our orbit? This is fun, ain't it?The Otherness NEEDS humanity. Our pain and suffering is their fuel. Rasalom made a deal with the Otherness I believe. He could cause pain and misery to feed upon and grow stronger. He then could foster ill will and guide evil forces to gain power to feed the Otherness. He's clearing a path for them after all. Those pillars with their human sacrifices, the death of Oculus after Oculus. The despair of the yeniceri...feeds Rasalom and fuels the Otherness. We may have started out a just another pretty marble, (I imagine a scene like the end of "Men in Black" with the child creature putting Eath back in his bag of marbles) but we are now so much more valuable.......... IMHO. And yas...................great fun we are having
KRW
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - cobalt - 05-23-2006
luthie2 Wrote:I was thinking about your question about whether the Lady was from the same age as Rasalom and Glaeken. Maybe the Lady actually preceded the arrival of the Ally and the Otherness. In that case, that would be yet another reason why she would resent their little ownership game.Good thought! A power or force present and then brought forward to fight the two bickering invaders. She/they are powerful. They can heal and even over-come death. They have some power over Rasalom, good! Kick him where it truely hurts IMO. Too bad poor Emma could not have been brought back though, it was within her realm apparently.
-Luthie
Post-Harbingers Thoughts (SPOILERS) - luthie2 - 05-23-2006
KRW Wrote:This is fun, ain't it?
Oh, yeah!! I'm lovin' it!
cobalt79 Wrote:Welcome Webby!
Good thought about the Mothers. I've always thought of them as protectors. They have pushed and guided Jack into situation after situation. Tom even saw one, although young, on the dock in Bermuda. She did try to warn him about his found treasure.
I'll have to admit, I keep thinking and rethinking this whole Tom and the Lilitongue story line now that I've read Harbingers. While reading Infernal, I assumed that Tom was one of those people who might be susceptible to Otherness influence, and that the Lilitongue was an Otherness object. But now if the Ally was purposely getting rid of Jack's "branches", who originally planted the idea in Tom's head about the Lilitongue? An agent of the Ally or the Otherness? And did either party foresee that Jack would almost perish and/or vanish because of the Lilitongue? Was the Lady interfering for Tom's sake, Jack's, both of them, or just because she didn't want this object unearthed again?
And who was behind the original burial of the Lilitongue in the first place? The Ally, the Lady or none of the above??
Any thoughts?
-Luthie