Anders Monsen Wrote:Mike, could not agree with you more on the first point, which I alluded to in my comments. EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is the best movie for many reasons, dialog and direction included, and Lucas really left control of the movie in the hands of experts here.

You caught me waving around generalizations about Kirk. This is not to deny thinking played some role in STAR TREK, but in virtually every episode Kirk does bow down to the god of network programming aimed at attracting men 18-45. But fighting extends beyond the fists, and ARENA is one big fight, with the only twist coming at the end as Kirk shows his "humanity." GAMESTERS OF TRISKELION opens with fisticuffs, and continues as Kirk battles his Thrall and wins. The crew win their freedom also after Kirk battles three people at once, gladiator style.

Spock, the cerebral character, often is mocked for his logic, especially by that most human of characters, Dr. McCoy.

The part about STAR TREK is that in the original series and NEXT GENERATION, a lot of writing went into examining what it means to be human, especially among the stars and aliens. DATA's aspirations to become more human made him a favorite of mine.

Bluesman Mike Lindner Wrote:Two points, Anders:
1) George Lucas can =not= write dialog.
2) Kirk didn't =always= rely on his physical prowess (think ARENA, for example.) And which episode was it?--THE GAMESTERS OF TRISKELION, mebbe?--where Sulu asks the noble captain, "How long are we going to put up with this?" And Kirk replies, "Until we can think our way out of it." And that line turned up in a Bob Dylan song! :p

Keith the Elder Wrote:Another great Kirk Quote: The Corbomite Manever, I think "We've got him just where he wants us"

Bluesman Mike Lindner Wrote:And where was the First Federation when we needed their titanic ships to help us deal with the Borg?!

Keith the Elder Wrote:They were snockered on Trania!!

Keith the Elder Wrote:Another great Kirk Quote: The Corbomite Manever, I think "We've got him just where he wants us"

Blake Wrote:He used a variation of that quote in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as well (talking to Decker about V'ger).

Blake

Terry Willacker Wrote:I have to vote for Trek over Wars. I think part of it is when you saw them first. For me Trek in college, Wars when I was taking my very young children to see it.

I really liked the newest Wars movie. The best of the series IMO.

But I think the best Trek movies (II, III, IV, VI and VIII, especially IV), and the best TV series (TOS and DS9...sorry TNG never made the cut with me), were much more entertaining than any of the Wars movies.

Also I agree that Babylon 5 was terrific ie: better than TNG, VOY, or ENT.