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Super Size Me - Ken Valentine - 11-25-2004
jimbow8 Wrote:I guess you could view it that way, but I didn't take quite that harsh a view of the movie. I eat at fast food places quite a bit (bad habit and laziness) and am overweight, but I don't blame the fast food companies for that; I blame myself for that. However, fast food has evolved into such a HUGE business and HUGE corporate lobby that some of their business practices are very unhealthy for the general population. I didn't so much view it as an indictment of the fast food companies(though I think it is), as much as I viewed it as an eye-opener to people to show people just how unhealthy such food can be.
It's not the food that is unhealthy, it is some people's choices that are unhealthy. I couldn't view Kaye's semi-annual Big Mac Attack as unhealthy in the slightest. But every dregging day?!? That's just stupid. And even then it wouldn't be so bad if these people would just get some exercise.
Quote:Yes, it is capitalism at its truest. However Capitalism has no regard for who it helps and who it hurts. The movie (and the extra feature interview with Eric Schlosser) points out that these menu items are not just thrown together; they are VERY carefully researched to find the exact perfect taste and this includes many additives which are "addictive." The movie points out that only THREE items on the McD's menu do not include sugar: Diet soda, french fries, and I forget the other one but it is not the salad - the salads have sugar.
More ignorance.
Firstly, Capitalism is a system wherein the means of production and distribution are privately owned . . . and operated for profit. Usually -- hopefully -- in a free market. What's wrong with that?! What is wrong with trying to make a living by giving your customers what they want? And by trying to give your customers a better deal for their dollar than the other guy?
What's the alternative to Capitalism? Communism? Socialism? Fascism? Some combination?
You can't legislate people's choices any more than you can legislate insanity.
Secondly, although "fries" don't contain sugar, they do contain carbohydrates. Carbohydrates contain starch, and starch in turn is changed into sugar by your digestive system. A lot of things are changed into sugars by your digestive system. You couldn't live without sugars. But how much you consume is nobody's business but your own.
Quote:I totally agree with you here. The movie is basically trying to give people information which is (debatably) not readily available from the fast food industry itself: just how unhealthy an alternative it is.
Sounds more like it's trying to lay the blame for "A's" choices on "B." Fast food is not an unhealthy alternative . . . in moderation. Eating too much of anything is unhealthy. Just as not eating enough of anything is unhealthy.
Quote:One of my favorite parts was when it was pointed out that 20-30 years ago (and still today from some restaurants) when you got a hamburger the meat all came from the same cow. Nowadays, a single meat patty being used by McD's and the other big chains can literally come from over a thousand different cattle - all in the same patty!
Sounds like more than just a little bit of an exaggeration to me. Seems like somebody is making vast pronouncements after doing half-vast research.
Quote:Also, the raising of livestock is very unhealthy, both to the livestock and to the end product. Cattle are regularly penned in confined spaces and root in their own filth, which causes disease and use of antibiotics.
Obviously, someone hasn't paid very close attention to the beef industry. Beef cattle are mostly confined for the short period of transportation to -- and in -- feed lots shortly before they are slaughtered. During that time they are fed from troughs. Most of the time they are/were fed hay and corn in its natural form. However, today, feed lot cattle are fed hay and corn in pellet form . . . it's healthier for the cattle, and easier to feed them with.
Rooting "in their own filth" is not something cattle do anymore than you do. Living in it, yes, but rooting in it, not so much. And the reason they live in it -- mostly during confinement in feed lots -- is because it's so darned expensive to keep the lots clean . . . another problem caused by the minimum wage.
Antibiotics are there to prevent to prevent sickness from spreading due to those temporary crowded conditions. But mostly because cattle are very susceptible to becoming "car-sick" during transportation. This car-sickness -- which is dealt with by feeding them Teramycin Crumbles during transportation -- weakens them and makes them susceptible to catching other diseases.
All these problems, as people see them, are caused by the necessity of fast mass-processing of food for people who live en-mass in confined areas, i.e., cities. Eliminate the cities -- and their populations -- and you eliminate the problem. (Not advocating it . . . just pointing it out.)
Quote: Livestock remains are also used as feed for other animals. This is one of the main reasons for the spread of Mad Cow Disease and others related.
Yep, that's why so many cats and dogs and pigs get mad cow disease.
Quote:Again, I am not in favor of suing fast food for obesity, etc, but I do think they hold some responsibility and could easily try to become a more healthy alternative as opposed to worshipping the Almighty Dollar! In my opinion, the movie was designed to provide people with information that they haven't been offered before or probably aren't aware of.
Information? Or propaganda?
As FPW pointed out, a lot of people aren't interested in healthy alternatives.
And finally, what's wrong with worshipping the "Almighty Dollar"? You have something better to worship?
Ken V.
Super Size Me - jimbow8 - 11-25-2004
Ken Valentine Wrote:Yep, that's why so many cats and dogs and pigs get mad cow disease.
Umm, yeah that is exactly how Mad Cow and similar diseases are spread, by feeding ground up brain and spinal matter of cows back to other cows. It has something to do with hooved animals and last I checked, cats and dogs don't have hooves, nor do they normally get ground up for feed.
My grandmother actually died of Creutzfeld-Jakobs Disease back in 1979 which is related to Mad Cow.
Quote:Information? Or propaganda?Propaganda is just information given with an agenda. Don't most people have an agenda when they give you information? So, yes, it is propaganda of a sort.
As FPW pointed out, a lot of people aren't interested in healthy alternatives.
And finally, what's wrong with worshipping the "Almighty Dollar"? You have something better to worship?
Ken V.
And there are plenty of more worthy things of worshipping. I like to keep the dollar as low on that list as possible.
Super Size Me - flyboy707 - 11-25-2004
fpw Wrote:I'll probably see it but the premise seems bogus: NOBODY eats at McD's 3 times a day.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the subtext -- as I've gathered from reviews and an interview with the director -- is that if you eat fast food and you're fat, it's the fault of the fast food industry. Individuals are absolved from responsibility for devoting a modicum of thought to the choices they make (ie, choosing a Whopper over a turkey-with-mustard sub from Subway is somehow BK's fault; they're both fast food, their usually within blocks of each other if not across the street, but the difference in calories and sat fat is enormous).
The nutrition nazis (CSPI in particular) castigate the fast food industry for not making their products healthier. Newsflash: those companies are in the business of selling food; that means they must serve food that people want to eat. If they don't serve food that people want to eat, they're out of business.
McD's introduced a low-fat McVeggie burger. It bombed.
A Big Mac or Whopper once a week isn't going to have much impact on a waistline. But if you eat out a lot -- and choose fast food places -- you need to make some choices between your palate and your health.
Breakfast: Cheese, ham, and egg Croissandwich or cereal and skim milk?
Lunch: Wendy's bacon cheeseburger or chicken caesar salad?
Dinner: Big Mac and fries or a chicken breast and side of corn at Boston Market?
They're all out there. The choice is yours.
I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, but I understood from the beginning that the point of the movie would be : eat fast food, get fat, blame the corporations and further the American cultural attitude of "give it to me now". I agree with all the posts concerning "choice". I rarely eat fast food (although it was my staple while in college) and I made the choice when I ate well and when I ate poorly. Realize this, it's not just happening here in the States. I fly all over the world to both very large and very small (very) cities and see people no different than Americans eating in the same fast food places.
PS-- I will say the fact that the french fries in the begining of the movie that didn't spoil after 3 weeks is VERY disturbing! UGH!
Super Size Me - Baxx - 11-26-2004
Sure, people say they want freedom, but they don't want to take responsibility for their actions. If you spill hot coffee on yourself, you sue the establishment for not telling you not to. If you get lung cancer from smoking, you sue the producers. If the gov had told you not to from the beginning, that wouldn't be freedom, would it? A lot of people need to wise up. However, I do think that McDonald's is evil (along with Wal-Mart) and is raising an army to take over the world. Go ahead, try to prove me wrong.
Super Size Me - jimbow8 - 11-26-2004
Baxx Wrote:Sure, people say they want freedom, but they don't want to take responsibility for their actions. If you spill hot coffee on yourself, you sue the establishment for not telling you not to. If you get lung cancer from smoking, you sue the producers. If the gov had told you not to from the beginning, that wouldn't be freedom, would it? A lot of people need to wise up. However, I do think that McDonald's is evil (along with Wal-Mart) and is raising an army to take over the world. Go ahead, try to prove me wrong.Well, how can McDonald's and Wal-Mart be evil if they are not responsible for anything? They are just capitalists!
Super Size Me - Baxx - 11-26-2004
jimbow8 Wrote:Well, how can McDonald's and Wal-Mart be evil if they are not responsible for anything? They are just capitalists!
Come on, Jimbow, you've read the Bible, right? Although Eve decided to eat the apple, whose idea was it in the first place?
Super Size Me - jimbow8 - 11-26-2004
Baxx Wrote:Come on, Jimbow, you've read the Bible, right? Although Eve decided to eat the apple, whose idea was it in the first place?You've lost me here! Why are McD's and Wal-Mart evil? I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just don't understand your logic. If McD's and Wal-mart are just being capitalistic and are not responsible, why do you consider them evil?
Is it just a fun thing to say?!?
Super Size Me - Baxx - 11-27-2004
jimbow8 Wrote:You've lost me here! Why are McD's and Wal-Mart evil? I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just don't understand your logic. If McD's and Wal-mart are just being capitalistic and are not responsible, why do you consider them evil?
Is it just a fun thing to say?!?
Yeah, pretty much. I don't use logic very often.
Super Size Me - thisisatest - 11-27-2004
Obviously, someone hasn't paid very close attention to the beef industry. Beef cattle are mostly confined for the short period of transportation to -- and in -- feed lots shortly before they are slaughtered. During that time they are fed from troughs. Most of the time they are/were fed hay and corn in its natural form. However, today, feed lot cattle are fed hay and corn in pellet form . . . it's healthier for the cattle, and easier to feed them with.
Rooting "in their own filth" is not something cattle do anymore than you do. Living in it, yes, but rooting in it, not so much. And the reason they live in it -- mostly during confinement in feed lots -- is because it's so darned expensive to keep the lots clean . . . another problem caused by the minimum wage.
Ken V.[/QUOTE]
Steve D
My dad got me a job at Farmer John's for the summer when I was a teenager; he was friends with one of the VPs there and pulled some strings. My wonderful job was to hose down the pig crap into a eight-foot drain (yes, I was that minimum wage guy). Not even the nose/mouth mask I wore could cover up the stench. During my lunch hour, I watched the pigs getting their throats slit, and after they were dead, being gutted and butchered, mostly by professional butchers but some parts by machine. We had to wear earplugs because the machines were so loud. The parts that were left over were sealed in these giant plastic pounches that were later sold to the "chorizo" industry. Our neighbors, Kal Kan Dog Food, Hoffy's (Hoffman's, actually), Oscar Meyer, would kill their cows at night; Farmer John's killed their pigs by day. Apparently, I was told, the animals could smell "death in the air" and would freak out, which made it very difficult to sledgehammer them on the noggin. Once, a cow escaped and began attacking cars. The sheriff's department put it down. So, it was best to time the killings so the neighbors' slaughterings did not coincide with each others. I'd really like to say that I became a vegan after this. But I didn't. But I'll share one thing with you: Kal Kan uses real grade A beef in their dog food, while the hot dog makers used grade B beef and pork, as it was cheaper. Kal Kan sold their sub-level meat to its neighbors or trashed it. When it was trashed, the rats would eat like, well, like rats; they ate so well, they grew to the size of large cats/small dogs (just like David Bowie sings in Diamond Dogs). One really should consider what one eats, whether it's from a can, package, or fast food place. A security guard once told me: "If I'm ever stuck here after an earthquake, I'm eating the dog food; f--- the hot dogs with the mega-spices to cover up the bad taste." That's why I stick to Hebrew National hot dogs, and their other products. No, not because they're from quality meat; it's because I never worked there.
Super Size Me - Lisa - 11-27-2004
Yikes, Steve. I think you just convinced me to stop eating beef and pork.
Lisa