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+--- Thread: New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? (/thread-71.html)
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - Biggles - 05-02-2004
Blades Wrote:What happened to the good ol' .45 acp "Jack" was using?? That is the cool thing about "Jack", he likes his .45acp. Times change I guess. There is always the .45GAP, the new Glock round.
At least now "Jack" has his Spyderco Endura with him in "The Haunted Air". The Endura was the first Spyderco I bought back in 1993. I still carry it today(along with a few other Spyderco's). Great knife. Thanks for throwing in a "name" for "Jack's" pocket knife.
Blades
The .45GAP sounds interesting if you like the .45 ACP's ballistics in a shorter case, but you still can't hold as many rounds in a magazine because of the case diameter. Plus (I know this is blasphemous) I just plain don't think the .45 moves fast enough. That's why I bought a .400 CorBon barrel for my Glock 21. Before that, I would carry it with 185 grain CorBon JHPs, which have impressive wound ballistics. If I were limited to ball ammo due to legal restrictions, I would go with a .45, but I don't like heavy slow bullets. I like light, fast bullets that expand violently and dump all their energy inside the target.
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - Blades - 05-04-2004
Biggles,
I think there are good/bad points for each bullet/caliber. There are plenty of gun forums that "debate" which one is best, but I think what it comes down to is, what gun you have with you, when needed, and can you hit your target?? What is the saying?? "A hit with a .22, is better then a miss with a .44"
or as I like to twist it "A cut with a knife is better then a miss with a .22" I thought the forums were here to help Mr. Wilson with guns and what not. I'm sure he already knows, but a ".38 AMT Backup"?? Someone left out a zero. Oh well.
Blades
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - Biggles - 05-05-2004
Blades Wrote:I thought the forums were here to help Mr. Wilson with guns and what not. I'm sure he already knows, but a ".38 AMT Backup"?? Someone left out a zero. Oh well.
Blades
Yeah, we already mentioned that. I'm sure it was the proofreader, since Paul knows a fair amount about guns.
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - 99mustang232 - 10-08-2006
Biggles Wrote:I own two .45s, a Norinco 1911A and a Glock 21. As great as the .45 was for our troops when they were limited to ball ammo, its wound ballistics leave a lot to be desired. 230 grain ball is far inferior to the 185 grain JHP, which in the CorBon loading is a decent stopper. If I had the option of carrying any of my pistols as a duty weapon (with concealability not an issue), it would be my Glock 21 with the .400 Corbon barrel dropped in. My 13 round mags all have plus 2 mag bases, for a total of 15 rounds per mag. You could literally whack a platoon with two 15 round mags (one shot, one kill).
needless to say i have the same two guns, but have been looking at the plus 2 bottoms for my 4 13rnd mags, saw some online but not upgraded springs, did you use the OE springs or replace them? speaking of whacking a platoon, what do you think could happen if you used two of the 40rnd drums you can get from sportsmanguide.com
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - Bluesman Mike Lindner - 10-08-2006
Scott Hajek Wrote:If one of you guys got fired from your job, would that be a "Gunny Sack?"
Haw!
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - ShadowLord - 10-08-2006
Hi all,
I watch a few of those Top Ten shows on the Military channel. I pulled up a top ten list from a google search and up came the following list ..
10. Browning Hi Power / FN Hi Power.
9. SIG P210.
8. HK P7.
7. Beretta Cougar.
6. HK USP series.
5. SIG P220 and the compact P245.
4. Springfield XD.
3. Beretta 92FS.
2. 1911 and its many variants.
1. CZ P-01
(remember this list has different reasons for why they are highly ranked)
Anyways the next thing I did was a quick cut and paste for the individual weapons and again a Google search for each of the weapons named to get some nice detailed info on them..
IE .....
google the CZ P-01
and from a guns and ammo magazine link comes the following info..
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from guns and ammo mag..
CZ P-01
Ceska Zbrojovka (or CZ) adds to their already impressive 9mm line-up.
By Payton Miller
The CZ 75, along with the Browning Hi-Power, SIG-P226 and Glock 17, is rightfully regarded as one of the world's great 9mm pistols. And although Ceska Zbrojovka's product line has expanded beyond the service auto that made it famous in the United States, the CZ 75 is what most American shooters reflexively associate with the company.
Naturally, over the years CZ has tweaked the original platform in an effort to offer model variants to the 75. But the new P-01 (despite the nomenclature) is the first such 75 offshoot to be offered in the new millennium. It's also the result of three years of development and exhaustive testing and will be the new sidearm of the Czech national police.
It features an aluminum alloy frame, a decocker, a firing-pin block and an M3 rail for tactical lights and/or laser sights. It's shorter overall (7.2 inches vs. 8.1 inches) and lighter (27 ounces vs. 34.3 ounces) than the standard 75B. It's also easier for the short-fingered to access the P-01's reconfigured trigger in the DA mode (which was just about the only complaint I've ever heard in regard to the 75, besides the fact that there's not quite enough slide to grab and rack back comfortably).
The frame of the P-01 is slightly wider at the top than that of a 75 for added rigidity, necessitated perhaps by the light rail. And the slide release has been reconfigured and is now a bit quicker to access.
Since more than 60 countries now use the CZ 75 in one official capacity or another, anything purporting to be an improvement had better be pretty good. I recently put close to 500 rounds through the new gun and was extremely impressed. I fired Winchester USA 115-grain FMJs, Black Hills 115-grain JHP Plus-Ps, Winchester Supreme SST 147-grain JHPs, Remington/UMC 124-grain FMJs and Speer Lawman 115-grain JHPs through it without a single hitch (and not even a cursory attempt at cleaning the pistol).
At 25 yards, five-shot groups ranged from acceptable (three to four inches) to superb (two inches or less). And all loads printed close enough to point of aim so that you'd feel confident using any of them. The best performers? Black Hills' 115-grain JHP Plus-P and Winchester's 147-grain SXT. My best effort with the Black Hills stuff would've been an honest 11⁄2 inches were it not for a single flyer. The Winchester stuff averaged slightly under two inches.
SPECIFICATIONS
Importer: CZ-USA
Action: Double-action auto
Caliber: 9mm Parabellum
Capacity: 10
Barrel length: 3.8 inches
Overall length: 7.2 inches
Weight: 27 ounces
Sights: Fixed three-dot
Grips: Checkered rubber
Finish: Black Polycoat
Price: $569
The double-action trigger pull was a smooth and hitch-less 12 pounds. In single-action mode, it broke at five pounds after considerable take-up.
I liked this pistol a lot, which is understandable because I'm a big fan of the CZ 75. The 75, however, is a full-size pistol, and I can certainly understand the appeal of a shorter, lighter variant. Since I'm a semi-casual sport shooter, the hammer drop, light rail and lanyard ring aren't much use to me. But make no mistake about it, CZ's P-01 appears to be an outstanding duty pistol. It's dead reliable, more accurate than it probably needs to be and a bit friendlier to the small-handed than the time-honored 75. Whether its appeal extends beyond its East European service niche remains to be seen. But it's definitely on the short list for "Most Desirable 9mm." --Payton Miller
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Needless to say you can also do the top ten assult rifles etc..
The M1 used by Jacks dad in Gateways was rated the Number 4 on the list..
Here is a nice google link for that weapon..
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_rifle_m1c-m1d.php
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ShadowLord
Interesting reading for those who are into guns..
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - webby - 10-08-2006
I was just curious and so I asked Hubby if he had an opinion about this, since he's far more knowledgable about such things than I am. I am posting his response because I thought it was downright amusing.
"The debate over 9mm vs. .40 S&W will rage on forever. Between the 9mm and .40, your best choice is .45 ACP."
And really, don't we all miss that little Semmerling .45 anyway?
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - Ken Valentine - 10-09-2006
99mustang232 Wrote:needless to say i have the same two guns, but have been looking at the plus 2 bottoms for my 4 13rnd mags, saw some online but not upgraded springs, did you use the OE springs or replace them?
OEM magazine springs are generally strong enough that 3/4th's of an inch less compression won't have any effect.
Quote:speaking of whacking a platoon, what do you think could happen if you used two of the 40rnd drums you can get from sportsmanguide.com
No offense, but I think you'd get your ass shot off. You've got fourty targets to shoot, those fourty can all concentrate on one target . . . you!
It's skill, and tactics, not equipment. All too many people -- and I've seen this too many times in competition -- imagine that having the latest equipment will make them better shooters. These same people also tend to blame the equipment when they lose. And they almost invariably lose to someone who is less on the high-tech, more on the practise, side of the equation.
Ken V.
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - Ken Valentine - 10-09-2006
webby Wrote:I was just curious and so I asked Hubby if he had an opinion about this, since he's far more knowledgable about such things than I am. I am posting his response because I thought it was downright amusing.
"The debate over 9mm vs. .40 S&W will rage on forever. Between the 9mm and .40, your best choice is .45 ACP."
With all due respect to your Hobby . . er . . . HUBBY,
it's not so much a matter of caliber as it is of shot placement. Granted, the larger caliber is more effective in creating a bigger wound-channel, but it also depends on the effectiveness of the bullet.Biggles is right about dumping all of the bullets energy in your attacker. A 45ACP -- in military ball (round-nose, jacketed) -- won't do that. Slow as it is, (are you listening Biggles?) it'll go right through two men and lodge in the third. 45 ACP with Federal Hydra-Shok, or Eldorado Starfire will stop in your attacker because they are designed to expand even at relatively low velocities. (They work great in 9mm and 40 S&W as well.)
With Eldorado Starfire, a 9mm turns into a 44 caliber, a 40 S&W turns into a 52 caliber, and a 45 turns into nearly a 70 caliber. This greatly increases its resistance to over-penetrate.
As much as gun writers try to make it so, there is no really hard, fast, science to this. It depends on your will, your accuracy, the will of your attacker . . . it can even depend on what kind of clothing your attacker is wearing.
Personally, I generally wouldn't carry anything less than a 380 -- although I have on occasion carried a Beretta Minx in 25 Auto -- and nothing more than a 45 ACP. (44 Mag has too much penetration unless you're shooting at distances greater than 100 yards.)
Ballistically, 9mm fits in between the 38 Special and the 357 magnum. The 40 S&W is a good round and so is the 45 ACP (if its not military ball.) Carry what you like best and are most familiar with.
I digress here, but I love this (true) story.
Massad Ayoob tells of an instance where a man was attacked on a New York Subway -- this happened long before the Bernard Getz incident -- where the intended victim had a concealed carry permit. The intended victim also was kind of lazy and tended to clean and lube his revolver by spraying it with WD-40.
WD-40 is intended to displace water (that's what the WD stands for . . . Water Displacement) so it can, and will, insinuate its way into a cartridge by way of the primer pocket -- killing the primer in the process.
This man was approached by a criminal with a knife on the subway. He drew his gun, pointed it at his attackers face and pressed the trigger. He later said that the CLICK the gun made was the loudest sound he had ever heard in his life.
His attacker, on hearing that click, simply rolled his eyes up and fainted.
Ken V.
New Gunny question: 9mm or .40 cal? - webby - 10-09-2006
Ken Valentine Wrote:As much as gun writers try to make it so, there is no really hard, fast, science to this. It depends on your will, your accuracy, the will of your attacker . . . it can even depend on what kind of clothing your attacker is wearing.
That's what makes the most sense to me. One of you guys posted something about a "determined woman with a .22" and even though I carry a larger calibre I had to smile at that. There is a lot to be said for the skill and willingness of the people involved, no matter what kind of guns they bring to the fight.
