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+--- Thread: Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... (/thread-2783.html)
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - bones weep tedium - 04-04-2008
Ken Valentine Wrote:Possibly as insurance in case Glaeken died before "R" made his returm.
Ken V.
I suppose even if the Ally were inimical to our survival and only playing the game to keep the Otherness from winning, it would plan ahead enough to make sure the successors were adults when Glakky-baby popped his ancinet clogs
case solved
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - Keith the Elder - 04-04-2008
bones weep tedium Wrote:If the Ally is going to be so prissy that it will only allow one person at a time to have dibbs on being the Sentinel, why would it also create and magically empower The Twins?
Because it can!
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - cobalt - 04-04-2008
I always thought the twins were insurance against the Otherness. If one fell, the other would be there to continue the fight. Ooops, both died and now Glaeken needs to resume the helm yet again.
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - Wapitikev - 04-04-2008
bones weep tedium Wrote:Okay okay okay.
Can we just put a spoiler notice in the thread title, and then speak freely thenceforth? All these big blocks of black are really starting to get up my nose. :mad:
Spoken like someone who has black bars in his Sig line.
Heh.
Seriously, though, I will subject my next Spoiler post so that I can avoid all the black. Thanx, Bones...newbies lilke me appreciate the pointers.
-Wapitikev
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - NickelobLight - 04-04-2008
Somehow I get the feeling that the Ally doesn't really think things all the way through. Sort of like getting a doberman to protect your house while your gone, and forgetting to feed it.
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - bones weep tedium - 04-05-2008
Wapitikev Wrote:Spoken like someone who has black bars in his Sig line.
"Heh" indeed, Wapitkev.
You know . . . you look kinda familiar to me . . . can't quite place it . . .
Where were you the day my parents were murdered? The only clue to the killer's identity was the "W" written on the wall in blood.
I've got my eye on you, Wapitikev . . . I've got my eye on you . . . :mad:
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - Wapitikev - 04-06-2008
bones weep tedium Wrote:"Heh" indeed, Wapitkev.
You know . . . you look kinda familiar to me . . . can't quite place it . . .
Where were you the day my parents were murdered? The only clue to the killer's identity was the "W" written on the wall in blood.
I've got my eye on you, Wapitikev . . . I've got my eye on you . . . :mad:
Good idea, Bones, keep your friends close, etc.
Don't be surprised if you find me looking back.
-Wapitikev
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - Wapitikev - 04-06-2008
Prefaced: Bones! I love the Art Blog! Speaking as someone who was accepted to art school but turned it down to get a degree in "not starving", keep up the great work!
NickelobLight, I recreated the response that my browser nuked on Wednesday, it’s long, so here goes.
NickelobLight Wrote:So basically you're saying that the Twin(s) were already the new Sentinel? That would mean that Glaeken was the Heir that whole time, (since they popped into existence, May 3rd, 1942).We are told that only the tiniest fraction of the Ally's attention or power is present here on Earth...IMO that means: With so little Ally-attention spent here, is it any wonder that things don't unfold in a systematic, logically planned out way where the Ally is concerned?
The only sure information from the novels about the Ally’s plan from pre-history until now is: There is no plan beyond the Sentinel, the Oculi and the Yaniceri.
We know, from all 4 examples of "the empowered" so far, that, when the Ally decides he (he/she) needs an agent, he seems to choose agents from the people available at the time and empowers them as he sees fit. For example:
Glaeken, in "Demonsong", is a wandering swordsman but doesn't seem to possess any superhuman abilities, then "Blam!" the next time we see him in The Keep he's the Sentinel with a magical sword.
Next, we find out in Harbingers that the Twins, with power intact, contacted and re-mobilized the Yaniceri in the early 70s. Since we are not told that they are ancient, like Glaeken, kept around for millennia in case Glaeken croaked, it seems more likely that they were born some time in the 1940s and are normal humans without the power of Oculi or anything else, up until 1968 when Rasalom is reborn and "Blam!" the Twins become Sentinelized...if they were Sentinelized previous to that, why didn't they show up to stop Rasalom from being reborn? Glaeken, with virtually no power to speak of, knew something bad was about to happen...but no Sentinel, Twins, or Yaniceri show up. Why two Sentinels with the Twins? Having virtually the same DNA, IMO they both get lucky/cursed with power. Who knows, maybe they were physically touching, like in some cheesy old comic book, and even though the Ally chose one of them, they split the powers. Everyone likes a 2-for-1 deal, even the Ally.
Next, the Oculi are regular humans until, "Blam!" one of their relatives dies and they suddenly become an Oculus, blessed/cursed with power. That they pass their power to a son or daughter could be simple convenience (they are prepared through their upbringing and close-by when their parent dies). Or maybe it's easier (i.e. costs less power and attention for the Ally) to transfer the power to someone who has common DNA, as with the Twins. Who knows? None of the other Sentinels every had any kids, that we know of.
Lastly we consider Jack, who, as we know from the YA novels, gets hints over time that there are larger powers at work, but remains, the whole time, a normal human...even after he is attacked by a Rakosh. Then, one day, the Twins buy the farm. Jack is in the right/wrong place at the exact time and "Blam!" he becomes...The Heir. Not the Sentinel...The Heir.
Why is an Heir mentioned now and not before? Remember...there was no plan.
Glaeken was the Sentinel for uncounted millennia and the Yaniceri are mentioned as also helping the Ally against the otherness, yet there is no mention anywhere during that period of an Heir to Glaeken. Then, Glaeken was estranged from the Yaniceri for a few hundred years and they didn't know if he was still alive or not...still no mention of an Heir. Then Rasalom dies and Glaeken retires. The Ally releases Glaeken from his service and he loses (most of) his superhuman abilities. His sword is broken or lost just before Rasalom's death (it's gone in Reborn) so no one's wielding that sucker ever again). With no more Rasalom, there is no Sentinel, that we are told about, for over 20 years between The Keep and Reborn, so no-one has any powers (except maybe some Oculi)...is there an Heir during this time? If there is, Glaeken doesn't know who it is and we never see an Heir, a Sentinel or the Yaniceri in Reborn. Since Glaeken wasn't the Sentinel anymore (no powers) why didn't the Yaniceri look for an Heir? The likely answer to all these questions is that the Yaniceri had no Heir to find because there wasn’t one, because the Ally didn't make one, because there was no Rasalom to fight.
Then Rasalaom is re-born and the twins are Sentinelized. They revitalize the Yaniceri and begin looking for Rasalom. From that point on, is there an Heir to the twins? No, because Jack becomes the Heir 30 years later when they die. Was Jack the heir all the way along? This seems unlikely because he wasn’t even out of High School for the first 20 Years that the Twins were Sentinelized. We don’t hear about the concept of an Heir until after the Twins die and there is no new spear ready to become the Sentinel and "Blam!", Glaeken gets power thrust upon him.
While all this evidence does not mean that there wasn't ever another Heir, it does strongly support the likelihood that Jack is the First Heir appointed by the Ally because Glaeken was easier to prune and re-Sentinelize than Jack was. If Glaeken's wife was already dead, then no pruning was even necessary.
But, I agree with you, the idea that Glaeken was considered still competent enough by the Ally to be The Heir to the Twins for 30 years, while they ran the Yaniceri and tried to find Rasalom, does seem ridiculous. But so does the idea that a teenaged Jack was the Heir. Jack wasn’t ready to be the Sentinel when the Twins bought it, let alone any time prior to that. Besides, as others have mentioned, there was 2 Twins, why would they need an Heir, particularly if Glaeken, by himself, never had one. It seems far more likely that there never was an Heir, ever, until now when it cannot be avoided, and even this new plan is short term, because:
When the Gateway in Munroe opens in Conspiracies, the Ally is suddenly updated on how close Rasalom is to coming into his real power. When the Gateway is closed simply by the Twins falling in, it is clear that Rasalom is not yet at full power, but the Ally’s still without a Sentinel.
Uh, oh! Time for a plan!
A cracked vessel, Glaeken, is chosen along with unprepared vessel, Jack to be The Heir, for 2 reasons. A) Rasalom cannot operate with impunity if there is a powerful sentinel out there who, despite Rasalom's overconfidence, could kill him if he is too obvious before he comes into his full power and, B) if the Sentinel keeps his distance, sure Rasalom gets more powerful, but the Ally also gets enough time to prune Jack and produce a fully functional spear, ready to take over as the Sentinel when Rasalom transforms and Glaeken has to face him and fails.
NickelobLight Wrote:That's kind of like a star quarterback retiring from a team and immediately becoming the new offensive coordinator. Can you imagine Favre calling plays next season in Green Bay? "The play is 'far-west-jet-slot, 200-right-delta-x-CHOICE!' Get it right or so help me I'll strap on a helmet and come in there myself next drive!!" But I digress.From 68 to Conspiracies, Glaeken isn't standing on the sidelines, like some veteran quarterback-turned coach, by any stretch of the imagination. In Reborn, Glaeken refuses to get involved with the forces trying to stop Rasalom's rebirth...he doesn't want to take a chance that he might become the Sentinel again ("Blam!", remember?). He doesn't know if there's another Sentinel or an Heir and doesn't care...the Yaniceri don't even know where he is and, perhaps vice versa. He also doesn't show his face for the next 30 years, while the Twins are Sentinelized. No coaching of the Twins, no threats that he'll come back if they screw up. Glaeken tried to remain invisible from the Twins and the Yaniceri on purpose...but he couldn't hide from the Ally.
NickelobLight Wrote:So if you're right, and Glaeken is ticked off in a major way...wow. Not so good to be Jack, eh?
Yes, Glaeken was avoiding re-appointment as the Sentinel in '68 and it may well have caused the death of his wife! Pissed! The real question is, does Glaeken know that Jack is responsible for the Twins' death and his re-drafting or does he only know that he's The Heir? It seems unlikely that he would know Jack's culpability, considering Glaeken was completely out of touch with anyone who could tell him what happened (I suspect that the Yaniceri don’t even know it was Jack), but it should become veeeery interesting if/when Glaeken ever finds out!
In addition, Glaeken is also likely upset for a second reason...he knows that there is, now, an Heir and this is significant, particularly if there never was one before. It would be pretty obvious that the Heir, not him, is the one that they Ally intends to face the final battle against Rasalom. So, for all intents and purposes, Glaeken knows he is just a temp. Glaeken ALSO knows that for a new Sentinel to be empowered without Rasalom's death and later re-birth, the current Sentinel has to die. So, Glaeken is virtually guaranteed that he's on a suicide mission, even though he never wanted the job!
NickelobLight Wrote:So if he died, Jack would get Oculus eyes, too? I don't think he could go around being Mr. Everyman at that point, huh?Does Glaeken have oculus eyes now? Will Jack get them? Who knows; every incarnation of the Sentinel seems to differ from the last...maybe Glaeken has a new sword with magical powers to replace his old one...time will tell.
I have reached the limit to how many characters the forum will let me post, so Ciao!
-Wapitikev
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - palsunstar - 04-06-2008
You mention "it may well have caused the death of his wife!"
Not having read the re-write of Nightworld, perhaps this has changed, but isn't Glaeken's wife still alive during Nightworld...albeit in late stages of alzheimers? IIRC during the novel, Glaeken checks on her several times.
Something that's really been bugging me about Conspiracies... - Wapitikev - 04-06-2008
palsunstar Wrote:You mention "it may well have caused the death of his wife!"
Not having read the re-write of Nightworld, perhaps this has changed, but isn't Glaeken's wife still alive during Nightworld...albeit in late stages of alzheimers? IIRC during the novel, Glaeken checks on her several times.
Never having read any version of Nightworld myself, you are most likely correct...I guess the Ally doesn't need to prune a spear if he's just going to throw it away.
I'm trying to wait until after the intervening novels before I start Reprisal and Nightworld but it is impossible to not discover some major plot points from book reviews and spoilers across the web. Thanx for the correction.
-Wapitikev