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Question for the Glock gurus - Biggles - 06-27-2007
Susan Wrote:I don't know anything about guns except for what Ken and Lawdawg have taught me. LOL
However, I did have a freaky experience with the business end of a Glock once. I had this crazy Judo instructor who was also a cop. And one rainy day nobody showed up for class but me, so he decided to show me how to disarm someone with a gun. I was all excited because that sounded like fun.
But no fake guns for me! He brought his Glock, unloaded it in front of me and then pushed it against the back of my head. I protested and said that was probably not such a good idea even though it wasn't loaded, but he didn't listen and immediately got into his "bad guy" character and scared the poop out of me.
On the plus side, I learned how to disarm someone very quickly.
Susan
He ignored the first rule of firearms: "There's no such thing as an unloaded weapon". That was incredibly stupid of him.
Question for the Glock gurus - the Oracle - 06-27-2007
I agree. I would NEVER point my weapon (loaded or unloaded) at ANYTHING that I did not intend to kill. In the event of my wall (when dismantling, cleaning, etc.) I do not intend to kill it, but I don't mind if I do (as long as no one is behind it, or the one behind it).
We always use rubber guns in my martial arts class. Anyone using a real gun is merely a bloated self-indulgent pig who deserves to be taught a lesson. And, since my sensei can kick Susan's sensei's ass, I suggest we get them together.
(:
-Rip
Biggles Wrote:He ignored the first rule of firearms: "There's no such thing as an unloaded weapon". That was incredibly stupid of him.
Question for the Glock gurus - cobalt - 06-27-2007
Susan Wrote:I don't know anything about guns except for what Ken and Lawdawg have taught me. LOL
However, I did have a freaky experience with the business end of a Glock once. I had this crazy Judo instructor who was also a cop. And one rainy day nobody showed up for class but me, so he decided to show me how to disarm someone with a gun. I was all excited because that sounded like fun.
But no fake guns for me! He brought his Glock, unloaded it in front of me and then pushed it against the back of my head. I protested and said that was probably not such a good idea even though it wasn't loaded, but he didn't listen and immediately got into his "bad guy" character and scared the poop out of me.
On the plus side, I learned how to disarm someone very quickly.
Susan
Yow!!! NEVER, NEVER.....EVER point a gun...whether loaded or un-loaded...at anything you don't intend to kill. This from a police officer?? :confused:
Question for the Glock gurus - Susan - 06-28-2007
the Oracle Wrote:Anyone using a real gun is merely a bloated self-indulgent pig who deserves to be taught a lesson. And, since my sensei can kick Susan's sensei's ass, I suggest we get them together.
(:
-Rip
ROTFL! That's totally cracking me up. My sensei was completely out of his mind. At the end of about a year, he had to stop teaching class because nobody wanted to show up! They were terrified of him. But I was young and thought I had something to prove so I was one of the last ones standing. And I love Judo, but still...that dude was CRAZY! And he was a Judo champion in some sort of cop division or something.
cobalt79 Wrote:Yow!!! NEVER, NEVER.....EVER point a gun...whether loaded or un-loaded...at anything you don't intend to kill. This from a police officer?? :confused:Tell me about it! It was a real shocker for me. We'd always used plastic (or was it rubber?) guns in class before. I've done tons of different martial arts styles and I must say I've never seen or heard of anyone doing that before.
Did I mention the man was crazy? LOL
Susan
Question for the Glock gurus - law dawg - 06-28-2007
Biggles Wrote:Responding to mere words (fighting words or otherwise) with force is a dicey proposition. I recommend restraint in such matters. Force is normally justified only for the defense of person or property, not feelings.Unless the words were to the effect of-
"I'm going to pull my pistol and f_ing kill you!"
That would do it.
Question for the Glock gurus - law dawg - 06-28-2007
Biggles Wrote:He ignored the first rule of firearms: "There's no such thing as an unloaded weapon". That was incredibly stupid of him.Its best to use a red gun or a stopped gun (barrel plug).
Question for the Glock gurus - Ken Valentine - 06-28-2007
cobalt79 Wrote:Yow!!! NEVER, NEVER.....EVER point a gun...whether loaded or un-loaded...at anything you don't intend to kill. This from a police officer?? :confused:
I tend to look at this a little differently.
The firse general rule of firearms is that all guns are always loaded. This is of course a crock. All guns are NOT always loaded. However, whenever handing a gun to someone to examine, the first thing you always do is to show them that it is unloaded. You do this by unloading it -- even if it already IS unloaded. With a single action revolver, you pull the hammer back to half-cock (the loading position which allows the cylinder to rotate) open the loading gate, and slowly revolve the cylinder looking into each chamber in turn to check that it's empty. THEN you hand it to your friend, who in turn revolves the cylinder to double check.
With a double action revolver, you press (or pull, if it's a Colt's revolver) the cylinder release and swing the cylinder out of the frame. Then you look into the cylinder to see if it's empty. If it IS empty, you then hand it over (with the cylinder still out) to be examined by your friend.
With an autoloader, you FIRST remove the magazine, then lock the slide back. Then you look into the mag well and chamber to be sure that there are no cartridges in the gun. With some autoloaders, the only way you can lock the slide back is by having an empty magazine in the gun. (The slide lock is internal and can't be operated externally.) So, you put an empty mag in the gun, lock the slide back, check the chamber and remove the magazine.
Pointing a loaded gun at someone is dangerous. Pointing an unloaded gun at someone is extremely rude. Either way, you don't point guns at people -- unless you're in a self defense situation.
Ken V.
Question for the Glock gurus - Biggles - 06-28-2007
Ken Valentine Wrote:I tend to look at this a little differently.
The firse general rule of firearms is that all guns are always loaded. This is of course a crock. All guns are NOT always loaded. However, whenever handing a gun to someone to examine, the first thing you always do is to show them that it is unloaded. You do this by unloading it -- even if it already IS unloaded. With a single action revolver, you pull the hammer back to half-cock (the loading position which allows the cylinder to rotate) open the loading gate, and slowly revolve the cylinder looking into each chamber in turn to check that it's empty. THEN you hand it to your friend, who in turn revolves the cylinder to double check.
With a double action revolver, you press (or pull, if it's a Colt's revolver) the cylinder release and swing the cylinder out of the frame. Then you look into the cylinder to see if it's empty. If it IS empty, you then hand it over (with the cylinder still out) to be examined by your friend.
With an autoloader, you FIRST remove the magazine, then lock the slide back. Then you look into the mag well and chamber to be sure that there are no cartridges in the gun. With some autoloaders, the only way you can lock the slide back is by having an empty magazine in the gun. (The slide lock is internal and can't be operated externally.) So, you put an empty mag in the gun, lock the slide back, check the chamber and remove the magazine.
Pointing a loaded gun at someone is dangerous. Pointing an unloaded gun at someone is extremely rude. Either way, you don't point guns at people -- unless you're in a self defense situation.
Ken V.
You are of course correct, but having taught many people firearms safety, I have always found it best to impress upon them to always treat every firearm as if it is always loaded. I've had rounds "cook off" on me (discharge after supposedly misfiring) and I've had a .22 rimfire semi-auto go full auto on me. In both cases, it was good that I kept it pointed downrange at all times. I do the same thing when I clear a jam, as I am sure you do.
Question for the Glock gurus - webby - 06-29-2007
Biggles Wrote:You are of course correct, but having taught many people firearms safety, I have always found it best to impress upon them to always treat every firearm as if it is always loaded. I've had rounds "cook off" on me (discharge after supposedly misfiring) and I've had a .22 rimfire semi-auto go full auto on me. In both cases, it was good that I kept it pointed downrange at all times. I do the same thing when I clear a jam, as I am sure you do.
That's how I was taught, though you do have to be practical too - as Ken V. described.
I was also taught that the only real safety mechanism is the one between your ears.
Question for the Glock gurus - Ken Valentine - 06-29-2007
Biggles Wrote:You are of course correct, but having taught many people firearms safety, I have always found it best to impress upon them to always treat every firearm as if it is always loaded. I've had rounds "cook off" on me (discharge after supposedly misfiring) and I've had a .22 rimfire semi-auto go full auto on me. In both cases, it was good that I kept it pointed downrange at all times. I do the same thing when I clear a jam, as I am sure you do.
I've never had a cook-off, but I did have a Marlin Camp 45 which tended to double. The sear had worn after thousands of rounds, and all I had to do to correct it was to do another trigger job on it.
(For those who are interested, the Camp 45 is an auto-loading carbine which fires the same cartridge and uses the same magazines as the Colt 45 auto -- which is also refered to as the Colt 1911. And "doubling" is when the gun fires two rounds with one pull of the trigger.)
One of the reasons I get snarky about this is because some people tend to go overboard. It sometimes goes from common sense safety, to paranoia. I've found this to be especially true in cowboy matches.
Granted, there are some people who do things without paying close attention to what they're doing, but I'm not one of those people. At one point they insisted that I put my guns back in my cowboy cart with the actions open. (When you finish a stage and go to the unloading bench, the shooter who shot before you watches while you unload your guns, and you do the same with the shooter who follows you. But after two people making sure that your guns are unloaded, they still insisted that the guns be placed in your cart with the actions open.) One of the chacteristics of this shooting area is that it's dusty and often windy as well. I close the actions on my guns and slide a beaded leather sheath over them to keep out the dust. (I also ALWAYS keep the muzzles of the guns pointed straight up.)
They got kind of pissy about it on one occasion and I told them:
1. That if they were that paranoid that they should look for a hobby they could engage in while hiding under the bed.
2. If they wanted to let their guns get dirt and grit in the bores and actions, I'd let them, but they have no business telling me how to care for MY guns. When they noticed that I never had any failures or other problems with my guns because they were always clean, they began to leave me alone.
Some of my guns are originals and are quite valuable.
Ken V.