jimbow8 Wrote:These posts being out of order is freakin' me out, man!

Happened on another thread I just read, too.

DaveStrorm Wrote:

Are you all seeing posting times that are weird? :confused:

Lisa, I see a time of 5:29pm for your post. And the post wasn't there when I checked last a little earlier (it's 9:52pm EDT as I type this). I looked at my profile settings and they seem correct.

bones weep tedium Wrote:Repairman Jack droppped out of society for a reason, and works hard at staying out for a reason. Most parents raise their children to share their religions and belief systems, wy shouldnt Jack raise Vicky as a Libertairian?

Quote:I think that outside of The Tomb, the most interesting character development of Jack was in Hosts. At the beginning after he shot the psycho on the subway and he started shouting at all the other people, asking why they hadnt stuck up for themselves and calling them sheep. He really seemed to hate them. I don;t think he'd ever raise Vicky to be one.

bones weep tedium Wrote:...

No, Sourdoughs, I don't have any children. What insight into Repairman Jack do you think I'm missing because of that?

...

Ken Valentine Wrote:Being outside the "system" has very little to do with being a Libertarian.

"A libertarian is a person who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being, or to advocate or delegate its initiation. Those who act consistently with this principle are libertarians, whether they realize it or not. Those who fail to act consistently with it are not libertarians, regardless of what they may claim."
- L. Neil Smith

Jack -- if it became necessary -- could raise Vicky with those values inside the "system" as well as out. Living underground is a real headache, and has little to do with actual Libertarian values. RJ could live a regular life, but it would be dangerous -- as FPW has pointed out on numerous occasions in his novels.



Hate? Or disgust?

In my view, Jack was trying to teach them a lesson. Criminals, of whatever type, don't wait around until there is a policeman nearby before they commit their crimes. They actually do the opposite; they commit their crimes when they are confident that there are NO police nearby. Unless they're idiots and try to rob a doughnut shop, that's pretty easy to do. In this country, there is one police officer on duty for (approximately) every 1,700 individuals. And as the police don't come until they're called -- and as it often takes them a long time to get to the scene of a crime -- it is in the best interest of the citizenry to take measures to defend themselves. Unfortunately, most of them don't, and that's what Jack was so upset about . . . individuals unwilling to take the responsibility of defending themselves.

And yes, Jack would most likely teach Vicky how to protect herself, even if doing so was illegal. As the old saying goes; it's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

Ken V.

(Posted at 9:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time -- not 5:06.)

bones weep tedium Wrote:So you grabbed a dictionary to criticise me? That's unlike you

Quote:I guess I mis-understood what a libertarian was and was not.

Quote:But he mentions how rubbish the government is, and how tax is wrong (I remember something he said that really got me thinking was something like it's the only time the taker decides how much they'll take) and I figured that living outside of the system was in deliberate response to not wanting to be a part of it anymore. I thought that was a part of being a libertarian. Can you tell me what word I could use to describe Jack's political stance on having dropped out of the system? Is that anarchistic?

Quote:If libertarians don't ever - under any circumstances - initiate force onto other people, then how come RJ is described as a libertarian? He's always beating people up.

Quote: I don't know why you have such a problem with what I type.

Ken Valentine Wrote:Grab a dictionary? Neil is a personal friend of mine. And it wasn't a criticism, it was an explanation.

I knew you'd jump on the word dictionary :p I could tell it was a quotation, but I was foreshadowing my later point about Hate/Disgust, and also referring to the ongoing pedant thing we've got going. In any case you were definining my vocab to undermine my argument, rather than just overlooking it. You know, like a pedant would.



That's why I quoted Neil.



I'd still say that RJ is Libertarian, but whether or not one lives above or under ground is a personal decision. Not everyone is alike.



Speaking of dictionaries, look up the meaning of the word "initiate," and then ask yourself how often Jack "initiates."

He hangs around Central Park at night, dressed like a pleb trying to get himself mugged so he can smack the mugger around. Once or twice in the books he also accepts cash from strangers to fix their problems, often using a bit of the rough stuff to get the job done.

I didn't need to use a dictionary, either !!




Because you seem to say one thing and mean something else . . . and I'm not a mind reader. I can only respond to what you say.

Would you describe yourself as a people person, Ken V? I'm not an idiot and I'm writing in English, surely you can use your melon every once in a while and just have a friendly discussion without being obnoxious?

Ken V.