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Firefly / Serenity - The Mad American - 09-22-2006
I am with Jimbow on this. I loved Firefly the series and Serenity the movie. You don't neccesarily have to see the series to enjoy the movie but it helps. Well worth the buy in my opinion.
Firefly / Serenity - Don B - 09-24-2006
The Mad American Wrote:I am with Jimbow on this. I loved Firefly the series and Serenity the movie. You don't neccesarily have to see the series to enjoy the movie but it helps. Well worth the buy in my opinion.
I'm a big fan of the series and really enjoyed the movie. I watched the series in it's original run on Fox and thought it was great television - it was well done and had a different concept for television science fiction. So while it was not "the greatest show in the history of the world" or "the most original concept in movie science fiction since Star Wars" I really enjoyed it and was disappointed the network cancelled it so soon. Television executives are timid and stupid creatures. Firefly is not related to Buffy or Angel and there are no vampires or demons or any supernatural elements. It seems Joss Whedon has more than one story to tell and he is an interesting fellow. Will a mass audience like it, probably not but why does everything have to be for a mass audience?
The movie is not a pure extension of the series but it does continue the overall arc of the story the series was trying to tell with the same characters, it just picks up the story some time after the events of the series. As a movie related to a television series it was better than the X-Files movie. Am I going to call it the greatest science fiction movie of the last twenty years? No. Did I like it? Yeah, I liked it a lot.
Firefly / Serenity - Blake - 09-25-2006
I think I've already posted in at least one other thread how much I liked "Serenity". I saw it before I'd seen a single episode of the series, and I think it stands on its own very, very well. I'd even go so far as to say it actually works as a good introduction since it motivated me to purchase the "Firefly" DVD set. And while I agree that seeing the series gives added depth to the movie, I don't think it's necessary to enjoy it at all.
DVDFile has a review of the HD version of the movie from the perspective of someone who hasn't seen the series.
Blake
Firefly / Serenity - jimbow8 - 09-25-2006
Blake Wrote:I think I've already posted in at least one other thread how much I liked "Serenity". I saw it before I'd seen a single episode of the series, and I think it stands on its own very, very well. I'd even go so far as to say it actually works as a good introduction since it motivated me to purchase the "Firefly" DVD set. And while I agree that seeing the series gives added depth to the movie, I don't think it's necessary to enjoy it at all.The main reason that I recommend watching the series first is to get the viewer emotionally attached to the characters prior to the events which occur in the movie. They may have less impact if one is less emotionally involved.
DVDFile has a review of the HD version of the movie from the perspective of someone who hasn't seen the series.
Blake
Firefly / Serenity - Mike Hanson - 09-25-2006
Well, the love it or hate it extremists have had their say.
Here is my two cents.
Yes, I have seen the TV series. Though I never watched the
original run on TV, I am a fan of BTVS and Angel, so I
eventually purchased and watched it on DVD (before seeing
the movie). My criticisms of the TV show are pretty much
in line with what fandom has posted everywhere over the
years. Yes it is well-written and well-acted, but, at
the end of the day, it is ultimately flawed because of
Whedon's slavish devotion to his "old west" conceit. The
show's twanging theme music over the opening credits is
incredibly grating and has you hating it by the time you
watch the very last episode. Where there should be a wide
gamut and range of technology among the various outer worlds
Whedon uses a very weak rationale to create a multitude
of old west tech societies on the majority of planets
visited by the Serenity crew (which no doubt made the
studio purse-holders quite happy).
All of the characters speak Mandarin Chinese as a second
language because China apparently, at one time or another,
ruled all of humanity, but for some apparent reason you
pretty much never see a single major Asian character or
enclave throughout the series short run.
Yes, I liked the TV show enough to watch each and every
episode on DVD, but not so much that I became a self-proclaimed
"Brown Shirt" or uber-fan of Whedon's creation, FIREFLY.
Then along comes the movie, and we all see,
THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES.
For years Whedon has encouraged fandom to parrot his complaints
that his genius has been forever hog-tied within the Hollywood
film industry. For years we have read hundreds of online posts
depicting that Whedon is the scriptwriter truly responsible
for the originality and brilliance of A TOY STORY. We've heard how
his script for the original Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie
was the golden fleece of screenplays, but ruined by a mediocre
director and arrogant actor Donald Sutherland. We've had to read
numerous accounts of how Whedon, upon viewing the opening
scenes of ALIEN RESURRECTION, shed tears to see what had been
done to his precious screenplay. In short, we, the world, had
been conditioned by this propaganda to believe that if Whedon
were only given complete creative control of one of his own
screenplays, the result would be a movie beyond compare.
And so this happened.
And the result?
One truly mediocre sci-fi flick. Not brilliant. Not terrible.
Not excellent. Not lame.
A well-made, well-shot, well-directed, sci-fi drama? Pretty much.
Better than the original Star Wars? Not by a long shot.
As original as Blade Runner? Don't make me laugh.
A solid example of superior scriptwriting? Surprisingly, nope.
For all of the hullabaloo and pizzazz of Whedon's genius
as a spinner of words, this movie's plot is as full of
contradictions as any of his other so-called ruined scripts.
Thank the God's of Indulgence that the old-west conceit was
mostly stripped from this incarnation of the TV show. That
is, surely, a big plus.
One of the most poorly realized aspects of the movie, and because
of its importance to the overall plot something that is glaringly
flawed, is the visual execution and realization of "The Reavers."
The bogeymen of the TV series, The Reavers (homicidal madmen,
not the humorous Americana family of the classic 1960's Steve McQueen
movie) are supposed to be insane, crazed, self-mutilating cannibals.
But for some unknown reason, we, the audience, are supposed to believe
that such a self-destructive unstable group of savages are more
than capable of operating complex equipment such as intra-stellar
spacecraft...so much so that they have become a noticeable threat
to the Federation Space Fleet. Uh...hello? Reaching terrifying
levels of expectation on the TV series (because we never see them,
we only see the fear of them well-reflected on the faces of the
Serenity's crew), Whedon uses every cheap trick and lame camera
angle to try to hide the faces and features of these bozos,
who, when finally glimpsed in the damnably exposing light of
day, are amazingly unimpressive.
** Spoiler **
The eventual death of two of the crew is also handled rather
ineptly. Rather than killing said folks off early in the movie,
and showing us that no one is safe, Whedon instead relies on
this time-old and too-late desperation to pick things up to
save an otherwise middle-of-the-road endeavor...but it is too
little too late.
Probably the best realized character in the whole movie is
Adam Baldwin's Jayne, Serenity's Mercenary head of security.
Well defined in his role as a self-important, cynical,
money-lusting egoist, his dialogue and actions are spot on
right up to the movie's denouement.
Also, one action moment that actually does rate as one of
the top 10 fight scenes of all time is Summer Glau's
performance as the character River, who goes one on one
with an entire room full of Reavers. With a battle-ax
in each hand she slices, dices, and makes Julian fries
out of a couple of dozen baddies. It was everything you
always wanted to see in an episode of Buffy, but just knew
Whedon never had the time nor budget to shoot.
By the end of the film I was singularly unimpressed.
I'd heard the hype. I'd seen the TV series. I was a fan of
Whedon's work. I'd bought into the years-long propaganda
that Whedon was a genius whose hands had been tied behind
his back for too long, and now was being set free. And
the result? SERENITY. A well paced, so-so written, well
acted, solid but not particularly original special effects,
mediocre-directing, and, ultimately, a BIG disappointment.
IMHO.
Firefly / Serenity - Blake - 09-25-2006
jimbow8 Wrote:The main reason that I recommend watching the series first is to get the viewer emotionally attached to the characters prior to the events which occur in the movie. They may have less impact if one is less emotionally involved.
I don't disagree, but I didn't have a hard time getting attached to the characters with just the movie. I think that's one of Whedon's talents: making you care about the characters in a short space of time. (Come to think of it, he's a bit like FPW that way.)
Mike Hanson Wrote:For years Whedon has encouraged fandom to parrot his complaints
that his genius has been forever hog-tied within the Hollywood
film industry. For years we have read hundreds of online posts
depicting that Whedon is the scriptwriter truly responsible
for the originality and brilliance of A TOY STORY.
Do you spend a lot of time on Whedon message boards or something? I've never gotten the impression that Whedon is egomaniacal, just independent. He prefers to have creative control and has had bad experiences when it's been taken from him. I get that. But I know I wasn't expecting anything more than an entertaining story, and I got that (IMO). I wasn't expecting the next "Blade Runner" or "Star Wars".
Mike Hanson Wrote:We've heard how
his script for the original Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie
was the golden fleece of screenplays, but ruined by a mediocre
director and arrogant actor Donald Sutherland.
I've never heard that one before, though I do know they changed the tone of the movie from his intent quite a bit. The series is far better than the movie was, though I thought the movie was entertaining in its own way. (Paul Reubens has one of the funniest death scenes ever.)
Mike Hanson Wrote:We've had to read
numerous accounts of how Whedon, upon viewing the opening
scenes of ALIEN RESURRECTION, shed tears to see what had been
done to his precious screenplay.
I've never heard that one before, either, but I remember reading his script, and my recollection is that it was better (again IMO). The ending got completely changed from his original. My understanding, though, is that much (all?) of the earlier parts of the movie are still Whedon's, and I think it's not one of his better efforts.
Mike Hanson Wrote:In short, we, the world, had
been conditioned by this propaganda to believe that if Whedon
were only given complete creative control of one of his own
screenplays, the result would be a movie beyond compare.
We were?!? Look, I loved Buffy, I thought Angel was mostly so-so, and I've generally enjoyed Whedon's work. But "a movie beyond compare"?
I think you were let down by your own high expectations.
Blake
Firefly / Serenity - Mike Hanson - 09-25-2006
Blake Wrote:Do you spend a lot of time on Whedon message boards or something?
Well, yah, I used to. :o
Not so much now. The ones I most commonly perused back in the day were THE BRONZE, THE ALTERNATIVE BRONZE, WHEDONESQUE.COM, and FIREFLY.COM.
Blake Wrote:I wasn't expecting the next "Blade Runner" or "Star Wars".
Considering the following, I found it hard not to:
"A hipper, funnier, action-packed throwback to the original Star Wars." - James Verniere, Boston Herald
"Serenity flies with sass and spirit, qualities that have been in palpably short supply in that Star Wars series since, well, Star Wars." - Jan Stuart, Newsday
"Like watching the original Star Wars for the first time, or better yet, watching The Empire Strikes Back... Mal is a guy who would shoot Greedo first." - Fred Topel, About.com
"A lot more sweaty fun than the last three overhyped, sterile, for-dorks-only Star Wars cartoons." - Connie Ogle, Miami Herald
And I got these from a site that had over 130 professional "positive" quotes.
Blake Wrote:I've never heard that one before, though I do know they changed the tone of the movie from his intent quite a bit. The series is far better than the movie was, though I thought the movie was entertaining in its own way. (Paul Reubens has one of the funniest death scenes ever.)
It goes without saying the tv series is much better than the original movie. Also, because the movie always stuck in his craw, Whedon published a comic book miniseries which apparently much more closely reflected the original Buffy movie script (much more so than the movie itself apparently did)...my original point was just that this situation was the first of many that Whedon publicly and vociferously attacked as a blight on his integrity as a scriptwriter and budding filmmaker. He could have said nothing at all, but instead, with his head full of Buffy fan praise, he spoke his mind, and obviously didn't hide his disdain for the actor Donald Sutherland, the Director of BTVS the movie, the writers and director of A Toy Story, the French Director of Alien Resurrection, etc. etc. etc. And it wasn't like they had to train a parabolic mic on him (aka the mumblings of a former american silver medalist skater). He obviously felt encouraged by the good will displayed by his interviewers...
Blake Wrote:I've never heard that one before, either, but I remember reading his script, and my recollection is that it was better (again IMO). The ending got completely changed from his original. My understanding, though, is that much (all?) of the earlier parts of the movie are still Whedon's, and I think it's not one of his better efforts.
Joss was quoted in more than one interview that he shed a tear shortly into viewing ALIEN RESURRECTION. And this was usually preferenced by statements about how his suggestions were ignored in terms of what was happening on set during the shooting of BTVS the Movie.
Look. My point is simply that the guy very publicly and aggressively has attacked others for ruining his precious gems, obviously "implying" that if he and he alone were in the control seat, that all would be well, i.e., a movie based on one of his scripts would be "great."
And SERENITY, while a good sci-fi film, was anything BUT brilliant, great, or wonderful.
Blake Wrote:We were?!? Look, I loved Buffy, I thought Angel was mostly so-so, and I've generally enjoyed Whedon's work. But "a movie beyond compare"? I think you were let down by your own high expectations. - Blake
Perhaps.
What I assuredly am, however, is obviously hyper-aware of what this movie represents in regard to its original hype, and Joss Whedon's self-motivated and personally-supported cult of personality (fan clubs, websites, etc. that he actively visits, talks to, etc.)
And to answer the unspoken question that I can feel in the air, no, I don't think this whole Whedon scenario reflects, in any manner, FPW's public comments about the horrible Michael Mann Directed screen adaption of his excellent novel THE KEEP. That psychedelic mind-f**k was a singular incident in Paul's life that deserved to be attacked. The entirety of Whedon's writing career up to the Production and Release of SERENITY should have spoken for itself, and not have been used as fodder for this successful TV Producer to tout his own brilliance and cover his reputation (*ss) in face of "the majority" of his screenwriting efforts' failures (A Toy Story being the lone exception).
Just my two cents.
Mike out
Firefly / Serenity - Blake - 09-25-2006
Mike Hanson Wrote:Look. My point is simply that the guy very publicly and aggressively has attacked others for ruining his precious gems, obviously "implying" that if he and he alone were in the control seat, that all would be well, i.e., a movie based on one of his scripts would be "great."
I don't think it's about the movie being "great". I think it's about the movie being his. Any artist (filmmaker, musician, painter, whatever) wants their work to be as they envisioned it. Whedon certainly wouldn't be the first person to criticize others for taking away his paintbrushes and altering his work. Look at George Lucas. After dissatisfaction over the way the studios handled his first couple of movies, he basically did all he could to distance himself from them so he could make his movies. Have they been "great" movies? Well, that depends on whom you ask, of course. Many don't think so. But it's beside the point. They're his movies, made the way he wanted them made. Whedon is just trying to do the same thing, and on that score, I think "Serenity" is a remarkable success. Not everyone has to like it.
Blake
Firefly / Serenity - Blake - 09-25-2006
Mike Hanson Wrote:(A Toy Story being the lone exception).
I actually hadn't realized he was involved with the Toy Story screenplay. Interesting.
One more point: Whedon has written and directed his own stuff plenty of times, and to (usually) great effect (e.g., "The Body"). I don't see the difference between that and a theatrical film other than the budget and the schedule. I guess I'm just not seeing why people were expecting The Greatest Movie Of All Time when they already had a good idea what to expect based on past work.
Not that Whedon can't make The Greatest Movie Of All Time. Maybe he can. I just know I certainly wasn't expecting that. And I don't think anyone else was outside of fan message boards. I'd never heard a thing about this incredible hype you keep referring to. "Serenity" was more of a sleeper to the majority of viewers, including me. And as to the movie reviews you quoted, I wouldn't call that hype. Hype generally comes before the movie is out. The reviews are just those critics' opinions on the movie they just watched. Many of them liked it. I'm sure some didn't. That's the way it should be.
Blake
Firefly / Serenity - Mike Hanson - 09-25-2006
Blake Wrote:I actually hadn't realized he was involved with the Toy Story screenplay. Interesting. One more point: Whedon has written and directed his own stuff plenty of times, and to (usually) great effect (e.g., "The Body"). I don't see the difference between that and a theatrical film other than the budget and the schedule. I guess I'm just not seeing why people were expecting The Greatest Movie Of All Time when they already had a good idea what to expect based on past work. Not that Whedon can't make The Greatest Movie Of All Time. Maybe he can. I just know I certainly wasn't expecting that. And I don't think anyone else was outside of fan message boards. I'd never heard a thing about this incredible hype you keep referring to. "Serenity" was more of a sleeper to the majority of viewers, including me. And as to the movie reviews you quoted, I wouldn't call that hype. Hype generally comes before the movie is out. The reviews are just those critics' opinions on the movie they just watched. Many of them liked it. I'm sure some didn't. That's the way it should be. - Blake
Blake:
I concede to your superior wisdom.
Regarding its cost, the subsequent box office and dvd sales have marked Whedon's SERENITY as a definite success. He is presently developing a WONDER WOMAN script for Producer Joel Silver. It will be interesting to see if Joss gets the Director's chair, and how said flick will turn out.
Ciao!
