+- RepairmanJack.com Forums (https://repairmanjack.com/forum)
+-- Forum: F. Paul Wilson Related (https://repairmanjack.com/forum/forum-8.html)
+--- Forum: F. Paul Wilson Main Forum (https://repairmanjack.com/forum/forum-3.html)
+--- Thread: Infernal (/thread-1307.html)
Infernal - Maggers - 11-13-2005
Hawkou8 Wrote:....Should have just written a little more....
Welcome to the board Hawkou8.
I'm curious. What more would you have FPW write? Words just to fill blank pages? I've read all of his books at least twice, many three times, and I've yet to see a single paragraph that I would consider filler, i.e., material that doesn't advance the plot or that isn't meaningful in some fashion. That's one of the things I like most about FPW's writing; it's trim, to the point, gets you where he wants you to be efficiently and effectively.
For example, and this is just my opinion, I much prefer FPW's writing style to Stephen King's. I'm a fan of King's earlier works, but from "Christine" onward, I kept thinking "where's his editor???" I don't know that I would consider King's verbiage to be merely filler, but I do find alot of it unnecessary.
In any case, I can't imagine that either Wilson or King would write with page counts in mind.
Glad to see that you enjoyed "Infernal" nevertheless.
Infernal - Blake - 11-13-2005
Very interesting. I didn't know any of that either. I think I now understand why, when looking down at a book's binding from the top, the pages seem to be grouped in physical "sections". Those must be the signatures.
My favorite instance of this phenomenon is when pages are labeled "This page left intentionally blank". Maybe I'm too easily amused, but I find that funny.
Imagine if the printers just had free reign. "This page left intentionally blank. But rather than completely waste the space, please enjoy this lovely poetry by one of our employees about her dog, Scruffles. RIP, little buddy."
Or worse: "Thirsty from all this reading? Why not enjoy a nice, refreshing Coke?"
Blake
Infernal - Maggers - 11-13-2005
Blake Wrote:....Or worse: "Thirsty from all this reading? Why not enjoy a nice, refreshing Coke?"....
Blake
Yikes, Blake! You may have hit on something here....something horrifying and yet possible. Oh heaven help us if an advertiser every took up this idea for real! Yikes, again!
Infernal - t4terrific - 11-13-2005
fpw Wrote:I don't see your point. You think you would have saved a buck if there'd been fewer leaves?
Maybe you'd be less pissed if you knew something about bookbinding.
I don't know a helluva lot myself, but I'll share what little I do.
A book is constructed of folds called signatures. A signature is a large sheet of paper printed back and front with multiple pages in various orientations so that when it is folded in half X number of times, all the leaves wind up right side up and in proper order. Common in book binding these days is the octavo which is folded in half 3 times to yield 8 leaves (which when numbered yield 16 pages).
Infernal has 22 octavo signatures. Multiply that by 16 and you've got 352.
Now, it's a rare manuscript that typesets out to a number of pages perfectly divisible by 16. This leaves publishers 2 options.
The 1st: simply leave a bunch of blank pages at the end.
2nd: arrange type size and layout to make the pages fill out the last signature to the end. This can involve compression or expansion. Expansion commonly involves "killing" a page (leaving it blank) before the start of a new chapter; sometimes margins are fudged. Publishers much prefer contraction to expansion because fewer signatures mean lower unit cost. But hardcover buyers don't like small type, so publishers are often left with expansion.
The publisher expanded Infernal so that the last printed page would be #351 out of a possible 352.
Numbering is traditionally started on the first leaf after the front endpaper, which is why the body text of most books starts on page 11 or 13.
You weren't gypped, you were simply spared a pile of blank pages at the end.
If anyone knows more (like Rakosh, I'm sure), please chime in.
That's good information. I've heard a lot of complaints about modern publishing methods and this explanation could explain most of them away. Thanks.
Infernal - t4terrific - 11-13-2005
Maggers Wrote:Welcome to the board Hawkou8.
I'm curious. What more would you have FPW write? Words just to fill blank pages? I've read all of his books at least twice, many three times, and I've yet to see a single paragraph that I would consider filler, i.e., material that doesn't advance the plot or that isn't meaningful in some fashion. That's one of the things I like most about FPW's writing; it's trim, to the point, gets you where he wants you to be efficiently and effectively.
For example, and this is just my opinion, I much prefer FPW's writing style to Stephen King's. I'm a fan of King's earlier works, but from "Christine" onward, I kept thinking "where's his editor???" I don't know that I would consider King's verbiage to be merely filler, but I do find alot of it unnecessary.
In any case, I can't imagine that either Wilson or King would write with page counts in mind.
Glad to see that you enjoyed "Infernal" nevertheless.
I've read two Stephen King books and decided that was all I needed to read. I found myself saying, "Come on! Get on with it!", at least a hundred times. I've read some of his short stories and I prefer them to his bloated, over detailized novels for sure.
Infernal - Hawkou8 - 11-13-2005
fpw Wrote:I don't see your point. You think you would have saved a buck if there'd been fewer leaves?
Maybe you'd be less pissed if you knew something about bookbinding.
I don't know a helluva lot myself, but I'll share what little I do.
A book is constructed of folds called signatures. A signature is a large sheet of paper printed back and front with multiple pages in various orientations so that when it is folded in half X number of times, all the leaves wind up right side up and in proper order. Common in book binding these days is the octavo which is folded in half 3 times to yield 8 leaves (which when numbered yield 16 pages).
Infernal has 22 octavo signatures. Multiply that by 16 and you've got 352.
Now, it's a rare manuscript that typesets out to a number of pages perfectly divisible by 16. This leaves publishers 2 options.
The 1st: simply leave a bunch of blank pages at the end.
2nd: arrange type size and layout to make the pages fill out the last signature to the end. This can involve compression or expansion. Expansion commonly involves "killing" a page (leaving it blank) before the start of a new chapter; sometimes margins are fudged. Publishers much prefer contraction to expansion because fewer signatures mean lower unit cost. But hardcover buyers don't like small type, so publishers are often left with expansion.
The publisher expanded Infernal so that the last printed page would be #351 out of a possible 352.
Numbering is traditionally started on the first leaf after the front endpaper, which is why the body text of most books starts on page 11 or 13.
You weren't gypped, you were simply spared a pile of blank pages at the end.
If anyone knows more (like Rakosh, I'm sure), please chime in.
I don't in anyway think I got gypped it was a gr8 book and I am a fan. Just lusting after a longer book. Anyway thanks for the lesson on printing.
Infernal - mike36799 - 11-13-2005
Hawkou8 Wrote:Infernal is a gr8 read but be advised that out of 351 pages the text starts on page 11 and at least 24 pages(got tired of counting) which are included in the page count are blank or may have only one word on the page. Should have just written a little more. Still a great book!
__________________
I didn't really get this. I assume we got the same hardback copy that came out on 1st. It seemed to me that the book was in same format as every other RJ book I have read. I guess you mean in reference to Crisscross, and others it was less of a read?
I was thinking the blank pages you mean that only had one word on them was the day of the week? I like the little breakup within pages myself, but I didn't really see Infernal being a short book. Maybe now I reflect back on it, the book might have been a little shorter than the average RJ book, but I agree it was a great book.
Infernal - smithers52 - 11-22-2005
Still need to check this out.
Infernal - Hawkou8 - 11-22-2005
smithers52 Wrote:Still need to check this out.Didn't mean to be negative about the book as some of my e-mails seem to imply. I enjoy reading FPW and the more the better. If you think your getting 351 pages it's not close.
Infernal - Biggles - 11-22-2005
Hawkou8 Wrote:I don't in anyway think I got gypped it was a gr8 book and I am a fan. Just lusting after a longer book. Anyway thanks for the lesson on printing.
There's no such thing as too much of a good thing; on that I agree with you. Still, one of Paul's books at 250-300 pages matches up favorably with one of Dean's at 338 (The Taking) or one of Stephen's at 1138 (IT). I will take quality over quantity any day. Paul's writing style is very "efficient". He doesn't ever waste words; yet he writes in a style that draws me into his books and stories as no other author's ever has. I've been hooked since The Keep.