Brian Wrote:I was there. We went in every day after coming off shift.

The pile smoldered even with all the water poured in and onto it. Big gaps in the debris would pool water then suddenly disappear and come back at us as steam. Whatever was down deep kept burning. If you ask me what it was, I'd saddened to say it was a combination of materials and remains that burned so hot that it did melt metal. Yes, I know that requires thousands of degrees. We learned to stand on non-combustibles and not wear steel toed boots the hard way.
By the time the pile was brought down to a level that the molten metal was discovered, we were no longer needed. I have my own ideas and don't believe it was the big conspiracy touted all over.

Now I need a drink. Good-Night.

Lysistrata Wrote:The heat was intense enough to melt metal.

Quote:Could a big quantity of melted metal retain heat during weeks?

KRW Wrote:There are a lot of "conspiracies" touted all over, most are laughable. But after what you describe, the biggest "conspiracy theory" of all is the governments, considering that kind of heat. But don't believe me, try it for yourself. Try to melt a piece of steel only using the combustible material seen that day, (substitute kerosene for jet fuel) and make sure the fire is oxygen deprived, because it was. Take all the time you want. You'll only end up with a soot covered piece of steel. (I don't mean sheet metal either, start with 1/4 wall)

Ken Valentine Wrote:I'm not denying that, but it (the heat) certainly wasn't generated by burning jet fuel -- which is little more than kerosene -- and paper.

Jet fuel ignites at around 410 degrees Fahrenheit, (210 C) and if it has an ample supply of oxygen, it will have a maximum burning temperature of 1000 degrees F (538 C) and if it had enough oxygen, there would have been no smoke coming from the fire. And as you know, there was a great deal of smoke. Furthermore, steel melts at around 2,700 degrees F (1482 C) so there is no way that the fires could have softened structural steel, much less melted it.Yes, depending on the insulation qualities of what surrounds it.

Concrete rubble is a fairly good insulator, so it would have kept in the heat. But then again -- being as the structural steel columns of the building were surrounded by concrete the heat would hardly have got to the steel in the first place. And definitely not in an amount great enough to cause the steel to soften -- much less melt.

In short, I'm still of the view that the buildings came down as the result of deliberate destruction.

Ken V.

noturbizniss Wrote:I understand everyone not wanting to believe the big bad corporate loving government (maaaaaaaan), but this is the same government that couldn't keep Guantanamo and the waterboarding (keep doing it!) covered up, so how in the world could they possibly cover up a deliberate collapse of the buildings an dmurder of 3,000 people?
What happend to good old Occam's Razor??

Wapitikev Wrote:Occam should know better than to bring razor to a gunfight.

...and who said the gubmint are the ones that covered it up...if the mysterious "they" can cover up who really killed JFK, they sure as hell can cover this up...all the evidence is melted and/or burned!

The government story is what it is, only because they aren't competent enough to figure out what really happened.

-Wapitikev

noturbizniss Wrote:Come on.There's no conspiracy around JFK's death. Everyone knows it was The Comedian!

KRW Wrote:There are a lot of "conspiracies" touted all over, most are laughable. But after what you describe, the biggest "conspiracy theory" of all is the governments, considering that kind of heat.

KRW Wrote:But don't believe me, try it for yourself. Try to melt a piece of steel only using the combustible material seen that day, (substitute kerosene for jet fuel) and make sure the fire is oxygen deprived, because it was. Take all the time you want. You'll only end up with a soot covered piece of steel. (I don't mean sheet metal either, start with 1/4 wall)

Brian Wrote:I don't think anyone is going to be satisfied with any given theory or explanation.

Brian Wrote:It wasn't steel that was the molten metal. Don't forget all those pieces of office equipment. Chairs, computers, cabinets. The fires weren't oxygen deprived either. Deprived fire doesn't smoke like that.