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More jaw-jaw - Ossicle - 10-20-2005
S P O I L E R S for RJ novels (and for an early episode of "24"!)
Oss here again, describing some things that interfere with the otherwise perfect pleasure provided by Repairman Jack-brand bath salts.
Set me straight, you Kung Fu fighters!
- Legacies. The totally cool Japanese agent. We're set up to like him and be interested in him for the entire novel. At the end, he's captured, stands alongside Jack, escape the cabin and, er, gets shot and killed. Um. So long, Japanese guy. I would've liked to see him kick some ass and (if it were necessary) meet an end more appropriate to his training and promise.
- Gateways. I'd like to have seen Jack kick more ass than he did. The only Jack-like treat we get is his extortion of info from the Gateways manager, which was fun but not enough for an entire novel.
- Crisscross. Having the head of the Dormentalists be a pedophile (and one who eschews curtains) was too easy a solution. If the leader was not a pedophile, what would Jack have done? I'll tell you: Jack would have had to be Repairman Jack, and figure out some amazing way of dealing with the situation (even if it were just falsely incriminating the leader, to create a way to blackmail him) in a way neither you nor I would have had the wit or the balls to do.
(Also, somewhat relatedly, I've gotten very tired of the whole pedophile card being played so frequently in pop entertainment of the past 15 years or so. There are many examples, but one that happens to come to mind is in "24", when -- in the first episode of the second (?) season, Jack (!) Bauer kills a police informant in order to back into the good graces of a gang in which he used to work undercover. And naturally, the police informant is not just any old bad guy, he's also a (zzzz....) pedophile, I guess to make Jack's summary execution of him more palatable to Mr. and Mrs. Couch Potato watching at home. I realize that easy moral trump card is not why FPW made the Dormentalist a pedophile -- it was to have a quick, easy way for him be blackmailable. What I've described is simply a pet peeve of mine.)
- Crisscross. Jack is able to reprogram an elevator from inside the elevator shaft, so the corridor doors open when the elevator is not there. I feel like I'm pretty willing to suspend disbelief, but... if Jack can do this, is there _anything_ he would not be capable of doing if a given novel's plot demanded it? I fear that we begin to get into Roger Moore-as-James Bond territory here, where he can just pick up an instruction manual for a nuclear bomb, written in Chinese, and figure out how to disarm the nuke in 30 seconds.
Bye for now!
-oss
More jaw-jaw - Snake - 10-20-2005
Ossicle Wrote:I fear that we begin to get into Roger Moore-as-James Bond territory here, where he can just pick up an instruction manual for a nuclear bomb, written in Chinese, and figure out how to disarm the nuke in 30 seconds.
Roger Moore as James Bond could speak and read Chinese fluently. Roger Moore as his own self cannot even read english...
And speaking of Bond, James Bond...I think the new guy is going to suck.
Cheerio!
More jaw-jaw - KRW - 10-20-2005
Ossicle Wrote:S P O I L E R S for RJ novels (and for an early episode of "24"!)
- Legacies. The totally cool Japanese agent. We're set up to like him and be interested in him for the entire novel. At the end, he's captured, stands alongside Jack, escape the cabin and, er, gets shot and killed. Um. So long, Japanese guy. I would've liked to see him kick some ass and (if it were necessary) meet an end more appropriate to his training and promise.
Kinda sucks that a bullet could finish off the guy, mainly because I was really liking him. But that's life. All the s/d training in the world won't stop a bullet. Like Ron White say's about the crazies that like to weather Hurricanes. "It's Not THAT the wind is a blowin, it's WHAT the wind is a blowin! Doesn't matter how many set ups you did that morning if you get hit by a Volvo."
Ossicle Wrote:- Gateways. I'd like to have seen Jack kick more ass than he did. The only Jack-like treat we get is his extortion of info from the Gateways manager, which was fun but not enough for an entire novel.
Actually, this is my second favorite Jack book. (The Tomb being the first) Which means the whole book was a Jack treat for me! You saying there wasn't enough gunfire in the Buyou for you? Or that Jack had next to nothing to go on when he arrived and did a pretty good detective job to figure out the details that were in his comprhension? Let alone the conversations he had with his dad and learning about his past?
Plus it had a TORNADO! ...................What?
Ossicle Wrote:- Crisscross. Having the head of the Dormentalists be a pedophile (and one who eschews curtains) was too easy a solution. If the leader was not a pedophile, what would Jack have done? I'll tell you: Jack would have had to be Repairman Jack, and figure out some amazing way of dealing with the situation (even if it were just falsely incriminating the leader, to create a way to blackmail him) in a way neither you nor I would have had the wit or the balls to do.
No, it was conveniant for Jack. Jack was gonna set him up for murder no matter what. He figured Luther was up to something, he just didn't know what. It's just one of those times fate throws you an ace instead of a duece. Also remeber, He set Brady up for murder too. Being a pedophile is tough to make stick, just look at Michael Jackson. He needed the murder wrap to make it stick, and that was all Jack!
Ossicle Wrote:- Crisscross. Jack is able to reprogram an elevator from inside the elevator shaft, so the corridor doors open when the elevator is not there. I feel like I'm pretty willing to suspend disbelief, but... if Jack can do this, is there _anything_ he would not be capable of doing if a given novel's plot demanded it? I fear that we begin to get into Roger Moore-as-James Bond territory here, where he can just pick up an instruction manual for a nuclear bomb, written in Chinese, and figure out how to disarm the nuke in 30 seconds.
-oss
I don't know how much experiance Jack has had with electric, (probably familiar with it in his line of work) but wireing is usually strait forward. I know an elevators wireing is a bit more diffacult, but they don't hire collage graduates to work on them either. .
KRW
More jaw-jaw - Jay #1 - 10-21-2005
I just think it was interesting to see a novel where Jack dealt with something other than the supernatural... and how he responded when he found out about the past of the woman he was helping was excellent.
[QUOTE=Ossicle]S P O I L E R S for RJ novels
- Legacies. The totally cool Japanese agent. We're set up to like him and be interested in him for the entire novel. At the end, he's captured, stands alongside Jack, escape the cabin and, er, gets shot and killed. Um. So long, Japanese guy. I would've liked to see him kick some ass and (if it were necessary) meet an end more appropriate to his training and promise.
[Quote]
More jaw-jaw - Maggers - 10-21-2005
Ossicle Wrote:-Having the head of the Dormentalists be a pedophile (and one who eschews curtains) was too easy a solution. If the leader was not a pedophile, what would Jack have done? I'll tell you: Jack would have had to be Repairman Jack, and figure out some amazing way of dealing with the situation (even if it were just falsely incriminating the leader, to create a way to blackmail him) in a way neither you nor I would have had the wit or the balls to do.
One of the graces, if you will, that has hit me as I've read all of Paul's works is his absolute and completely forgiveable rage concerning children in peril, which is often the case in his books, and more horribly, often the case in real life.
Perhaps you have no children; perhaps you've had no family members exposed to the inexpressible horror and life long damage done to children by pedophiles. The nearly neverending reach of the crime expresses itself not only in the child him/herself, but in family members as well.
As far as I'm concerned, pedophiles are a scourge who should be discovered and punished. The crime happens far more frequently than you might imagine. So finding it frequently in fiction is simple a real representation of life today.
More jaw-jaw - APhew - 10-21-2005
Maggers Wrote:One of the graces, if you will, that has hit me as I've read all of Paul's works is his absolute and completely forgiveable rage concerning children in peril, which is often the case in his books, and more horribly, often the case in real life.
Perhaps you have no children; perhaps you've had no family members exposed to the inexpressible horror and life long damage done to children by pedophiles. The nearly neverending reach of the crime expresses itself not only in the child him/herself, but in family members as well.
As far as I'm concerned, pedophiles are a scourge who should be discovered and punished. The crime happens far more frequently than you might imagine. So finding it frequently in fiction is simple a real representation of life today.
If you haven't already, you should read Andrew Vachss. His Burke novels are excellent.
More jaw-jaw - APhew - 10-21-2005
Ossicle Wrote:- Legacies. The totally cool Japanese agent. We're set up to like him and be interested in him for the entire novel. At the end, he's captured, stands alongside Jack, escape the cabin and, er, gets shot and killed. Um. So long, Japanese guy. I would've liked to see him kick some ass and (if it were necessary) meet an end more appropriate to his training and promise.
You do realize that he was a member of the Kaze group? I couldn't see it making any difference how he was killed.
Quote:- Gateways. I'd like to have seen Jack kick more ass than he did. The only Jack-like treat we get is his extortion of info from the Gateways manager, which was fun but not enough for an entire novel.
I would have liked it if big R kept a lower profile towards the end. Oh well, it's good to want things.
Quote:- Crisscross. Having the head of the Dormentalists be a pedophile (and one who eschews curtains) was too easy a solution. If the leader was not a pedophile, what would Jack have done? I'll tell you: Jack would have had to be Repairman Jack, and figure out some amazing way of dealing with the situation (even if it were just falsely incriminating the leader, to create a way to blackmail him) in a way neither you nor I would have had the wit or the balls to do.
I thought this played out perfectly in the book.
Quote:- Crisscross. Jack is able to reprogram an elevator from inside the elevator shaft, so the corridor doors open when the elevator is not there. I feel like I'm pretty willing to suspend disbelief, but... if Jack can do this, is there _anything_ he would not be capable of doing if a given novel's plot demanded it? I fear that we begin to get into Roger Moore-as-James Bond territory here, where he can just pick up an instruction manual for a nuclear bomb, written in Chinese, and figure out how to disarm the nuke in 30 seconds.
What type of training has Jack had? Where did he go and who taught him? Don't know? Of course you don't. It hasn't been written yet. Why focus on this elevator as being an issue, I'm sure if you tried real hard you could find a couple of other instances where he did things that would make you suspend disbelief. In this particular case... do you remember Milkdud from "Legacies"?
More jaw-jaw - Ossicle - 10-21-2005
KRW Wrote:Kinda sucks that a bullet could finish off the guy, mainly because I was really liking him. But that's life. All the s/d training in the world won't stop a bullet. Like Ron White say's about the crazies that like to weather Hurricanes. "It's Not THAT the wind is a blowin, it's WHAT the wind is a blowin! Doesn't matter how many set ups you did that morning if you get hit by a Volvo.Yep, I reckon.
KRW Wrote:Actually, this is my second favorite Jack book. (The Tomb being the first) Which means the whole book was a Jack treat for me! You saying there wasn't enough gunfire in the Buyou for you? Or that Jack had next to nothing to go on when he arrived and did a pretty good detective job to figure out the details that were in his comprhension? Let alone the conversations he had with his dad and learning about his past?Actually, I love the novel too, and your enthusiasm is very persuasive. Tons of great stuff, I'm wrong to regret that he didn't beat the crap out of anyone.
Plus it had a TORNADO! ...................What?
KRW Wrote:No, it was conveniant for Jack. Jack was gonna set him up for murder no matter what.Hm, maybe. But he would've needed to come up with some other way of doing so if it weren't for the very convenient perversion and the lack of curtains.
KRW Wrote:I don't know how much experiance Jack has had with electric, (probably familiar with it in his line of work) but wireing is usually strait forward.KRWI doubt very much that it's straightforward to rewire a modern elevator (i.e., it may be computerized) from inside the shaft so that when the button out in the hall is pressed, (i) the car is not summoned and (ii) the door opens anyway. But I admit I don't know.
-oss
More jaw-jaw - Ossicle - 10-21-2005
Maggers Wrote:Perhaps you have no children; perhaps you've had no family members exposed to the inexpressible horror and life long damage done to children by pedophiles. The nearly neverending reach of the crime expresses itself not only in the child him/herself, but in family members as well.I have, and know, all these touchstones. They do not relate to the fictional mechanics I brought up.
Maggers Wrote:The crime happens far more frequently than you might imagine.
That's overreaching.
Maggers Wrote:So finding it frequently in fiction is simple a real representation of life today.I do not quite agree, but this is pretty un-fun stuff, so I shall exit backwards, bowing respectfully. Cheers!
More jaw-jaw - Maggers - 10-21-2005
Ossicle Wrote:....That's overreaching....
I respectfully disagree.