Ossicle Wrote:** VARIOUS RJ NOVEL SPOILERS **

Hello buoys and gulls,

What better thing for a newcomer to do than "go negative?"

I'm going to be trying to think of things I hate about the work of that lout FPW. I mean, what's all this silliness in "The Tomb"? There's no such thing as tombs. Anyway, here's one item:

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With respect to Rasalom and Jack: "I'll let you live because you amuse me."

I'm sorry, but for Rasalom to be fully aware of Jack, and of Jack's increasing involvement with the upcoming conflict, but to nonetheless let him live is very disappointing.

Two alternative takes (too late, I know) occur to me.

First, to take much more seriously the admonition that R.'s name must never be uttered, and relatedly for Jack to be _much_ less in R's radar than he now is.

Under this take on it, in the RJ universe it would be REALLY REALLY CRUCIAL that R. not become aware you may be working against him. In this case, the fact that during Conspiracies Jack managed to enter R.'s awareness but not get killed by him was pretty amazing -- and (in a perfect RJ world) would have been due to something pretty incredible about Jack's capabilities. And it's now (in the novels following Conspiracies) _critical_ that Jack never let R.'s attention turn to him again.

The second take would be more Jack-centric. (And let me here tip my hat to the question of whether, in reading these novels, we care more about Jack and his character than about the conflict between humanity and the Adversity. That is, what are these books _about_? I vote for the former.)

This second take would be: What is it about JACK, Jack and his amazing capabilities, that spares him from death at the hands of R.? I know that a generous interpretation of the climax of Gateways would say, "It's because he's so entertaining to Rasalom," but I rally would prefer the reason to be due to something much more formidable about/unique to Jack.

For instance (and I'm not saying this is a good idea -- it's all I'm capable of thinking of because I'm not a super-genius like FPW), _because_ Jack had the nerve and single-mindedness to take on a rakosh and be slashed by it, he's now undetectable to Rasalom's supernatural powers of detection -- much as he has antibodies that stave off the virus in Hosts.

Or (and I guess this really is just a subset of the first suggestion, i.e., that Jack stay off of R.'s radar) that by the very virtue of Jack's long habit of staying incognito and unknown and untraceable -- his long habits of circumspection -- he's also able to evade R.' s scrutiny.

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To summarize, I think FPW is trying to balance two mutually exclusive things:

A. To have Jack be incredibly cool and kickass. Jack's earned himself a unique role in the world because he's had the courage of his convictions for years. (This is why we read these books.)

B. To have Jack be a much more conventional adversary (ha ha!) of the Adversary, and to nonetheless survive.

The latter is, I think, a significant strain against the seams of disbelief. Rasalom wants to gain our universe for the Adversary. He shouldn't be an Adam West Batman villain who's happy to crow and rub his palms, explaining his devious plot while Jack's tied up over a pit of alligators, secretly cutting through his bonds with a hairpin.

With respect to A. (Jack being incredibly cool and kickass), I always find myself wishing that the very thing that makes him a character unique in literature (that "he's earned himself a unique role in the world because he's had the courage of his convictions for years") would be (with a wonderful poetic appropriateness) the very thing that allows him to play a part in the downfall of Rasalom.

I think it'd be _terrific_ if exactly the same traits/virtues that enable him to be a good balker of petty thieves and shakedown artists and blackmailers also proved applicable and sufficient to take down a villain unimaginable orders of magnitude worse.

With the way the series is developing (and I have NOT read Infernal yet) that ideal is present... to an extent; but not to as great an extent as I would like.

-oss

Biggles Wrote:Some observations:

1. R. is the ultimate arrogant bastard, and as such is incapable of believing that any mere human, including Jack, could seriously threaten him. I know people like this (they're called "prosecutors" ). They DO get their asses kicked, but they don't even believe it's happening then.

2. R. does get pleasure out of Jack, precisely because of the price he makes Jack pay. This is R.'s raison d'etre (which, of course is a French term, literally translated as "raisin deterrence", describing the French committment that no shriveled grape will ever invade and defeat France as Germany did three times in 80 years).

Biggles Wrote:Some observations:

1. R. is the ultimate arrogant bastard, and as such is incapable of believing that any mere human, including Jack, could seriously threaten him. I know people like this (they're called "prosecutors" ). They DO get their asses kicked, but they don't even believe it's happening then.

2. R. does get pleasure out of Jack, precisely because of the price he makes Jack pay. This is R.'s raison d'etre (which, of course is a French term, literally translated as "raisin deterrence", describing the French committment that no shriveled grape will ever invade and defeat France as Germany did three times in 80 years).

Ossicle Wrote:Hm, that IS a "mule," to use Issac Asimov's parlance: postulating a character so extreme as to wreck all else characterological -- and as such is valid.

Still, I 'd prefer a Jack-centric mythos to a R.-centric one.

-oss

Bluesman Mike Lindner Wrote:Oss, let's not forget that Rasalom isn't the only player in the game.
The Ally is putting chips in in the pot, too. We've read in several books that the Ally has...plans... for Jack, and is watching his back. The various ladies-with-dogs show that much. So at this point, the pot is large--you wanna call...or raise? :eek:

Bluesman Mike Lindner Wrote:Oss, let's not forget that Rasalom isn't the only player in the game.
The Ally is putting chips in in the pot, too. We've read in several books that the Ally has...plans... for Jack, and is watching his back. The various ladies-with-dogs show that much. So at this point, the pot is large--you wanna call...or raise? :eek:

KRW Wrote:I'll raise ya! T4T has it. They are an entity unto their own and probably have their own uses for Jack. You ready to fold yet?

Sam Wrote:1. Ditto. Jack is but another bug to squash in Rasalom's eyes. Why should a "God" worry about a lower life form.

2. His pleasure also derives from knowing that, in the end, not only will he physically torture Jack but he will also crush Jack's will and make him feel helpless, which to me would be Jack's greatest mental anguish. So let him feel that he is making a difference and gain confindence. It will only sweeten the victory even more.